Anyone knows what is the default range at which can player notice invisible npc?
The npc is still transparent and player takes 50% concealment, but it can be seen.
I could not find this information anywhere.
If I should guess, I would say 2 meters. But only if the PC passes an spot or listen check.
You probably know better than I, but I always thought that meant the target was heard but still unseen?
If the target is not spotted, my impression is that you can stand right next to it and still not “see” it (but “hearing” is good enough to attack, with penalty).
I don’t think that there’s a specific range. The spotting character needs a line of sight to the hidden NPC(s). A player character then makes a passive or active spot skill check five times a second, according to the wiki.
What are 2 meters in game? Because it is not 2.0. 2.0 is a range of blindsight 5 feet range which is in fact reason I was solving this. I ran into an issue where my Eye of Gruumsh character get action cancel anytime I attempted to attack invisible enemy with double axe (the 2.0 blindsight range appears to be less than is personal space between attacker and target + weapon desired attack range, so anytime I clicked attack, my character repositioned and moved away from blindsight range which then automatically put enemy invisible (but transparent) again thus action cancel).
Yes which is why i put word spotting into quotation marks. Yes if the character is transparent it means it was not spotted, but heard. However I don’t think there is any listen skill check going on because for invisibility, the character is visible (with transparency) - calll it heard or whatever - automatically and immediately once you are in some range.
There absolutely is.
If the character is invisible, then you find him automatically disregarding listen check. He will appear transparent from some range. And if you leave this range he immediately disappears regardless of your listen skill rank.
Anyway, I don’t know exactly what this range is, but increasing blindsight range in ruleset.2da from 2.0 to 3.0 and 4.0 to 6.0 solved my issue. From my testing I would say that the range for this mechanic might be about 7.0 ingame distance. But it is just a rough guess. In the end, it wasn’t really relevant to solve my issue.
5 feet is roughly 1.524 metres. FWIW, while blindsight may have a range of 5 feet in the D&D rulebooks, all measurements in NwN are actually in metres. So in game 2 metres is 2.0 units of measurement and the red outlined squares in the toolset are 10 x 10 metres.
TR
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Okay so ingame distance measurements are meters. Good to know. NWN mixing feets and meters together really confusing me sometimes.
Thing is, I am guessing here, I think NwN was developed in Canada. Why is that significant? For some reason Canada uses a mix of both Imperial and Metric measurements. See this Wikipedia page - Metrication in Canada.
TR
No it’s not about whether a sign outside Bioware is in mph or kph 
We did a bit of evaluation with the blindsight feats, losing sight while attacking is something that happens (I remember there being some other oddities but not what). Didn’t explore further, but def needs dev comment if you want to use the feats since debugging will be awful.
ETA: As far as the title, think there’s some range where invis things are seen…think model collision might be it or some “short” range. Much less bad to test, but again, dev comment sounds better.
I am using this since before EE was released. The feats for Shou and Gruumsh works as is. There was just one bug with Shou unarmed damage calculation (fixed recently in EE, but I had it fixed in my nwnx for years - it used to be in nwncx_patch and nwnx_patch under 1.69 which I distributed publically) and the other problem is that blindsight actually doesn’t remove concealment. Which I have fixed as well. The rage bonus is easy to implement and is for more than decade coded inside Community Patch script changes too.
Listen skill use is more complicated then it should be possibly, and I will write this up eventually (there’s some bugs as Lokey says and they’re not easy to solve):
Listen checks (ie to hear someone) trigger if these conditions are met:
- They cannot be silenced
- You need to be able to hear (ie not deaf, not asleep)
- If the creature you’re listening for is invisible (ie not visible anymore, due to invisibility, or if you are blind)
- You can listen for them if you are within “Desired attack range” + 1.5m - desired attack range is essentially a creatures unarmed attack range in this instance, so longer ranged weapons don’t count, but their appearance and thus preferred attack distance does (so Dragons can “listen further” since they’re larger).
- Sanctuary overrides this if you’ve failed a sanctuary save, you can’t hear them.
- Of course if the creature isn’t invisible the listen checks can be made as usual
Once you can “do a listen check” (ie you’ve not failed one of the above checks) it does it, and if you are not in stealth mode essentially the check instantly passes and thus you can hear them - but still get the 50% concealment penalty due to not being able to see them, only hear them (Bioware used the same VFX for “being unseen” which is identical to the spell VFX).
Note that Blindsight is one of the more buggy things since it’s meant to bypass, well, all kinds of things like Blindness, and it doesn’t really (being blind still makes you blind, sigh!). But that might be more down to the Gruumsh class not really being tested and finished then anything else.
I made a quick test which confirms that it is listen mechanic. It is just weird that the skill itself is not checked and it is automatic.
(My tests involved invisible npc I controlled as DM and player, if NPC was silenced or PC was deaf, it wasn’t revealed, otherwise it was automatically revealed from certain range even with -50 listen skill).
I noticed that as well, but I wasn’t sure if it should grant immunity to actual blindness effect. Especially because of that range on blindsight. If you think it should then I guess I fix it on my PW to grant it. The Gruumsh class is quite weak anyway so small buff will make it more interesting.
The listen skill is only checked if you’re trying to hear someone actively in stealth mode, ie have something to check against. You could probably add a “Is In Stealth Mode” check hook in the case of people in invisibility but they could also, well, go into stealth mode and have the checks activate too.
Blindsight according to the D&D rules is more like tremor sense and Gruumsh class is all about “being blind” so the intent is probably that it’d get past blindness (and invisibility etc). Bioware I think didn’t fully test it, given it was a cut class/feature, and the order of checks is just a bit wrong.