Is it worth it?

Neverwinter Nights 1 Enhanced Edition
#1

I am very sure this has been answered non-stop, but for the love of me I simply can’t find anything that really intrigues me into buying this.

It’s simply Neverwinter Nights, but updated to work with newer computers and the like, which I luckily don’t need (yes, I’m an old geezer using old geezer tech, beat me with a morning star about it).

I did read some features and some patch notes, there are some fixes I like but they’re trivial.
From everything else, it seems that there are…Graphical additions, incredibly bad ones though. SSAO, Depth of Field? Why? What for apart of just SUBJECTIVE visual design?

I’d be more interested in better in-game shaders, like proper specular maps (instead of ugly envmaps) for armours, massive texture and model improvements and the like.

Talking about that, I used to be a modder. “Used to” is simply that I stopped modding for the passion of it, passion is meaningless to me now, call me a nihilist but I’m more than that.
I’d probably work for Beamdog if they’re hiring, I’m a great texturer.

Anyway, my point is…Well, simply put, I do want to get it but I just don’t see why I would for 20 euros.

#2

I did this back in February when normal & specular maps were added to EE. Now there is also a facility for custom shaders as well. Here are some official (I think) example ones.

From the BD site (as opposed to their forums).

TR

#3

Well worth it to me. Runs great, new functions and fixes, online server list working flawlessly. I run a PW utilizing nwnxee and it’s been a simple setup, much easier than nwn1 was back in the day. Great online help through discord for nwnee and nwnxee. There’s updated sword, shield and axe models and I hear they are going to go over the tilesets. A lot of old time community members are back and there’s a lot of buzz. Best thing to happen in years really.

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#4

Probably.

I hate the enhanced editions and as far as I’m concerned they’ve managed to put themselves in a position where they can steal from people and get away with it. Kudos for that, I guess.

And I’ll still buy it. Why? Because the community has accepted it to the point where it has become the new norm. So unless there is literally 100% two-way compatibility for good then sooner or later the EE version will be a requisite for 99% of online play.

Also, when you say that passion is meaningless to you, you imply that meaning has some value to it, which means meaning itself still has meaning for you, meaning you’re not a nihilist. I’d guess based on pure probability that you’ve lost your ideal and you’re afraid to replace it with a new one because that means risking the pain of losing your ideal all over again.

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#5

It might be better to consider the included (optional) shaders as demos for shader support. I think we still can’t do custom FBO/“full screen” type shaders without replacing the ones you are talking about, but we can already do material shaders. Don’t just think of things like “tint”, but also geometry. Swap textures, draw stuff, accumulate snow, make fancy weather effects or moving sun/moon/constellation skies, move things in the wind, make fancy dark/ultravisions, make a minecrafty looking pixel world, make a hundred different planes or hellscapes using the same base assets and shadering them up, whatever. My skills in this area are far more limited than my imagination :roll_eyes:

I think that the idea of shader support still hasn’t really “sold” well mainly because it’s like adding a bucket of blocks* to your game and some premade walls you autogenerated to show off. “I love the new walls!” “Ugh, these walls are so stupid.” or “what is all this block junk” hehe. …Plus we need shader wizards. (The reality of shader support still has a bit more to go for accessibility, I think.)



Anyway, here’s a list of new scripting functions in EE so far, if that’s your bag, and a link to their
“roadmap” on Trello. It’s hard to know what your bag is, to know what to point you to so you can decide whether or not it is worth it to you.

There are people that only play the OC and SP modules, that are holding out for a full asset revamp (seems to be slowly in progress, maybe) and full party control, for example, which are things that I don’t care about as much personally, and others that decide the company is doing nothing but swimming in piles of money and cackling at the stupidity of the buyers, just because their own favorite feature isn’t out yet. There’s also people that would love to have it, but absolutely will not buy it until it’s out on GOG.

So… I’m pretty happy with my purchase (and really excited for the toolset tweaks* and resource downloader coming), and would buy it again for my friends and PW compatriots when/if I needed to. I, too, desperately want unlocked spellbooks, feats, and a total scriptable UI revamp, and I have concerns about upheaval to tiny CC communities without immediate improvements in tools/workflow to go with it, but I’m mainly happy that it continues to be worked on in the long term. On the other hand, it’s hard for me to see it from the perspective of someone who is not going to be doing any modding, and who either doesn’t play online or whose favorite servers haven’t migrated yet – mainly because I only played like twenty minutes of the official campaigns and can’t imagine why anyone would buy them again :smile:



Sorry for the lengthy and wandering response, it’s just always hard to decide what is worth anything to another person.



* A bunch of blocks you need math to use… maybe that explains it!


* Honestly, I probably would have thrown money at them just to have my placeables stop dropping out of the air when I left-click on them, so… :stuck_out_tongue:

#6

Not worth it - for me - there were no changes I’d like to have - full party control, multiple windows toolset, rotation for placeables on Z axis and (as far as I know) no bug fix for night/day spawning encounters. While I do appreciate new graphic possibilities, it’s not enough to entice me. Simple cosmetics.
But then I still can run 1.69 without any hiccup on my PC - so things might be different for people with newer hardware and OS, who have problems running 1.69.

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#7

Worth it if you want a game that runs well on modern platforms with modern screen resolutions. Worth it if you enjoy persistent worlds, where it will become the de facto standard. Worth it if you like having ages-old bugs squashed. Worth it if you appreciate the new functions they’ve added. Worth it if you like having a responsive development team behind a game that was written off for dead a long time ago.

No, it’s not a huge graphical improvement, but if you’re in any way invested in this game, you’ll probably want to upgrade.

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#8

@Tarot_Redhand
These look…Well, I’d say impressive but the specular glow (bloom) seems to be over-the-top.
Nonetheless, it IS impressive considering how antique the engine is (or was).

You know, talking about all this…May you, or pretty much anybody else, please tell me what new additions did the engine get?
For example, is it 64-bit now? It uses the latest OpenGL? Does it use “advanced modern coding” or the like?

And sadly, from the information about the Technical Graphic Artist, it seems I can’t work with Beamdog.

@Charles
I like your interpretation (Perhaps I worded that wrongly, but I am sure you understand), I’m not surprised though, you Neverwinter Nights people were always smarter than the other typical videogamers.
(Must be because most of you invest a fair amount in Wisdom and Intelligence)

To further inform about that aspect…
I’m not absolutely afraid to feel the psychological pain again, but I can’t deny I do have some dread of it.
I’ve been modding a lot of my life, the only things I ever got were…Nothing.
There were chances for donations but I got (almost) none, people saying thanks were surprisingly way lower than expected and to make matters worse, I get sycophants for no reason.
I’m one of the few rare people who absolutely hate sycophants, especially of my own.

I understand all this is to be expected, such is the modder’s life, I even fought more modders than I fought the community itself.
I like to think myself as not a modder, but anybody can easily argue how big of a lie that is, I AM a modder, but not exactly the “typical” one or at least not anymore.

Still, I’m pretty much blinded and deafened by everything. I have people who like my mods, people who support my mods, and I of course did get some donations.
I was never proud of any of my mods despite how people say it’s very good, and there were even three professional critiques who absolutely loved my work. I guess I simply have, what I love to call, “Dali’s Syndrome”; be it I make great (weird) art, I hate it no matter what anyway.

So yes, I was indeed an enflaming proponent of how work should be done through passion, not monetary gain…But now, I’ve just lost that passion and I have no desire to get it back, I’d rather be a stoic stone-faced golem instead of a living-the-life human being.

@thirdmouse
You are right, EE may look “stable” but it is far, far, far from finished.
These shaders may be “meaningless”, but I guess they do give hope. There will surely be better ones, after all, OpenGL (I mention it because I assume this is what the new NWNEE Engine uses) is a very powerful engine and a huge accumulator of many type and variety of shaders.
Those that you mentioned, fancy weather effects, accumulative snow/dust/etc…And my favourite of all, texture-based, such as parallax mapping, they are possibilities and something I’d love to see, hell maybe even try to make.

I am also hopeful about EE, but…Well, I think you can get a conclusion about what I think of “hope” from what I explained to Charles.

Now to everybody else…It seems that EE isn’t actually that worth it, it is only so if you definitely want online gameplay, which is not my aspect.
I pretty much only play Neverwinter Nights for the singleplayer modules.
Perhaps some day I might get interested in co-op and online, but for now, it’s just ol’ Iewu and his lil’ stories.

Does NWNEE get sales from time to time?

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#9

I had big hopes for NWN:EE but it took so long and there is so little over 1.69. And some of the BeamDog decisions such as ASLR and no support for client modifications really disappointed me.

Currently as it seems to me the only benefit of NWN:EE is a lot of new players coming into NWN mainly from steam. This is quite major benefit for anyone who was hosting PW as there is now much higher chance you acquire new players and your PW comes to life again.This was problem in 1.69 as the player base was stagnant (if you were lucky) or on downwards trend. Though, from quick observation it doesn’t look as great in reality it seems that newer servers are ignored and players are primarily joining the high populated ones. But most fixes BD made were to improve PW stability and fix PW issues so for those running PW is NWN:EE probably best choice, especially because NWN:EE further splitted the original nwn playerbase. Some servers still running 1.69 version or I think there is a nwnx plugin that allows NWN:EE players to join 1.69 servers (is it really working?) but most server didn’t give a damn and moved onto NWN:EE. Those first ones have it easy since BD gave them free cdkeys for their players, but without these keys you will lose half the playerbase. Not everyone is going to pay 20$ just to keep playing his favorite PW.

I am not so fond of new players from steam either. It seems most of them aren’t patient, they cannot understand how to install anything that doesn’t use workshop and they are not interested in visiting other sites for nwn content - this site particularry. If it isn’t at steam it doesn’t exist for them. So I wonder what the situation will be later. Yesterday steam listed 500 their players playing NWN - I assume they are tracking anyone playing NWN in SP/MP with steam app open in background.

Also BeamDog probably underestimated the release date and the huge ammount of crashing issues remaining to this date might permanently damaged NWN:EE reputation and many players might already gave up on NWN.

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#10

@DrA You might find these new scripting commands from patch 1.75 interesting -

int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_SCALE = 10;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_X = 21;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Y = 22;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Z = 23;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_X = 31;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Y = 32;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Z = 33;
int OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ANIMATION_SPEED = 40;

// Gets a visual transform on the given object.
// - oObject can be any valid Creature, Placeable, Item or Door.
// - nTransform is one of OBJECTVISUAL_TRANSFORM*
// Returns the current (or default) value.
float GetObjectVisualTransform(object oObject, int nTransform);

// Sets a visual transform on the given object.
// - oObject can be any valid Creature, Placeable, Item or Door.
// - nTransform is one of OBJECTVISUAL_TRANSFORM*
// - fValue depends on the transformation to apply.
// Returns the old/previous value.
float SetObjectVisualTransform(object oObject, int nTransform, float fValue);

// Sets an integer material shader uniform override.
// - sMaterial needs to be a material on that object.
// - sParam needs to be a valid shader parameter already defined on the material.
void SetMaterialShaderUniformInt(object oObject, string sMaterial, string sParam, int nValue);

// Sets a vec4 material shader uniform override.
// - sMaterial needs to be a material on that object.
// - sParam needs to be a valid shader parameter already defined on the material.
// - You can specify a single float value to set just a float, instead of a vec4.
void SetMaterialShaderUniformVec4(object oObject, string sMaterial, string sParam, float fValue1, float fValue2 = 0.0, float fValue3 = 0.0, float fValue4 = 0.0);

// Resets material shader parameters on the given object:
// - Supply a material to only reset shader uniforms for meshes with that material.
// - Supply a parameter to only reset shader uniforms of that name.
// - Supply both to only reset shader uniforms of that name on meshes with that material.
void ResetMaterialShaderUniforms(object oObject, string sMaterial = "", string sParam = "");

Because the SetObjectVisualTransform() function can seem a little obscure in the terms it uses for those that have done no graphical programming before I wrote this little set of wrapper functions to make it a little easier to use -

void DoTransform(object oObject, int nTransform, float fValue)
{
    float fDummy = SetObjectVisualTransform(oObject, nTransform, fValue);
}

void Scale(object oObject, float fValue)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_SCALE, fValue);
}

void MoveXY(object oObject, float fValueX, float fValueY)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_X, fValueX);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Y, fValueY);
}

void MoveXZ(object oObject, float fValueX, float fValueZ)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_X, fValueX);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Z, fValueZ);
}

void MoveYZ(object oObject, float fValueY, float fValueZ)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Y, fValueY);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Z, fValueZ);
}

void MoveXYZ(object oObject, float fValueX, float fValueY, float fValueZ)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_X, fValueX);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Y, fValueY);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_TRANSLATE_Z, fValueZ);
}

void RotateXY(object oObject, float fValueX, float fValueY)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_X, fValueX);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Y, fValueY);
}

void RotateXZ(object oObject, float fValueX, float fValueZ)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_X, fValueX);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Z, fValueZ);
}

void RotateYZ(object oObject, float fValueY, float fValueZ)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Y, fValueY);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Z, fValueZ);
}

void RotateXYZ(object oObject, float fValueX, float fValueY, float fValueZ)
{
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_X, fValueX);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Y, fValueY);
    DoTransform(oObject, OBJECT_VISUAL_TRANSFORM_ROTATE_Z, fValueZ);
}

TR

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#11

As far as the EEs are concerned, I think paying $20 for not needing CDs that will wear with time and use to install and play my favorite games legally is worth it in itself. It’s just the principle of the thing; people have been doing this for a decade and uploading their work for free. If anything I’m mostly disappointed with the selling of the rights to begin with. Trying to cram American college-politics into it didn’t help, either.

So far I have BG I & II EE. My second copy of BG 1 was worn out and my drive couldn’t read it. I got it on gog because it allows me to download the install files for good. You can’t buy the original games by themselves, but they are included with the EEs (or rather, the download rights are) which is why I got them. I’ll probably get NWN EE eventually the same way.

Sadly I think the last place you find appreciation for your work is in single player modules. Or at least the last place you find such appreciation expressed. The communities that build around PWs and other modders who’s work you make easier are more likely places to find it, in my opinion.

I will share with you my favorite equation: “Happiness = Expectation - Reality”.

Stoic indeed. :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes
#12

NWN doesn’t need CD in drive ever since patch 1.69 or maybe even 68

edit: and you don’t need to install NWN from CD either, ever since I installed it from CDs I was just copying the whole NWN directory onto new OS/new device with no issues.

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#13

I bought it and, honestly, on its own it wouldn’t be worth it, not with its current price tag. I kinda regret the decision I made.
Keep in mind that there was a time when NWN1 was free on GOG (it was a promotion). Today it costs €8. NWN:EE goes for €20 on Steam. I’m not fully convinced that the differences in gameplay so far make up for a difference of price that is more than the original’s price itself. The game is not more than twice as good as the original, to put it mildly.
However, as you said in the opening post, it’s mostly about improved technical support and a few more features (some of which are extremely handy for modders), aso add the fact that NWN1 is no longer free and will see an inevitable decline in its multiplayer population due to the release of NWN:EE and you can see that, if you like multiplayer and love NWN1 you will eventually have to switch.
There is also always a chance that Beamdog will release a new expansion for the game, similar to what they did with Siege of Dragonspear for BG1. Although this may not necessarly be a good thing. Siege of Dragonspear received some ferocious criticism. I didn’t play it, so I won’t comment further on that.

In my opinion: if you don’t care about multiplayer and you’re happy with the way NWN1 is you should stick with the original NWN1. So far the differences are minimal.
If you are into multiplayer and modding, well, you may want to consider to move to NWN:EE during a sale.

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#14

Yeah I was referring to installation. I don’t think CD has been required for play ever since HotU was released tbh, but CDs still wear even from simple storage. Never thought of copying the entire directory. Didn’t work so well for me when I tried it with other games, not to mention that sometimes the reason I’m reinstalling is because my old computer broke down, in which case I wouldn’t have access to my old nwn directory anyway.

I guess if you’ve been simply moving your nwn directory from harddisk to harddisk for over a decade it can be hard to see the appeal of being able to reinstall without CDs, but for someone who has installed the games from CDs 20+ times, the appeal is certainly there.

#15

Thenks, @Tarot_Redhand ,
That takes care (sort of) Z rotation, I’ll just wait and observe - might rethink buying it, if more of the changes are implemented.

I just can’t stop to compare EE to previous expansions - where, for definitely less money you could get so much - new modules, new content (new scripting functions included). EE pales in comparison.

BTW: 20 $ worth is not this same in other countries. It might be seen as very cheap, or - quite expensive.

#16

I’m a pretty big fan of the new scripting functions. Effect tagging, SetTag, area cloning, and SetObjectVisualTransform, are enabling some stuff for me I couldn’t have done before.

Toolset’s a lot faster, too. No multi-window support yet, but opening the properties window jumped from about 12 seconds down to about 1 second, which is a lifesaver. And normal maps are just the coolest. :smiley:

For modulebuilders, scripters, and 3d modelers, I’d feel pretty certain about saying that the EE is worth getting.

@Iewu_Marallax

Butting into note on hating amassing sycophants and general nihilistic unhappiness and disillusionment with life (hello, fellow person viewing reality through the frequently cruel lens of depressive realism you are not alone <3)

The whole thing gets even sadder when you consider the rather tragic trajectories that the lives of so many celebrities take. :-/ Isolation via idolization doesn’t seem to be very healthy for humans overall, and yet, people are widely taught to believe that worshipful deference and jubilation is something that should be given to people we admire as a sign of our respect and appreciation. See the entire music/entertainment industry, and politics, too. That kind of idol worship where there’s a crowd of people submerging themselves in obedience and admiration to a single person is a pretty huge thing overall. :-/

For what it’s worth, I think it can help a lot to just kind of freely fuck up sometimes and be a person, and to encourage budding admirers to take up their own skills rather than just hang around to glorify and protect the idol. A lot of people who lean towards acts of “sycophancy” are really just trying to be nice, give encouragement and appreciation to somebody who’s doing something that they think is totally neat, or say “Hello! I’m new here!” to somebody they perceive as an already-established entity of import in the local social dynamic - sometimes just because they’re really feeling somewhat uncertain about whether it’s okay for them to be there at all. Joining a group when you think that everyone’s so much more skilled, so much smarter, so much more experienced than you are is super scary for a lot of people - especially for ones who value specific types of skillsets which they don’t personally have much more highly than their own skillsets, which they may not even be able to recognize, because they’re taking them for granted because they’re easy for them (see Impostor Syndrome).

People need an explicit hand up, sometimes, to see that they’re really equals of the very people they’re inclined to idolize. That helps them get out of “sycophant-dom”, too, and become their own idol, which leads to real self-esteem for which one no longer needs external affirmation - not by worshippers, not by an idol. Makes them less susceptible to being used as an attack swarm by an unscrupulous idol, too; combines taking weapons away from psychopaths with “helping a fellow light shine on it’s own”. I think maybe resenting and rejecting one’s fans isn’t the best way to go about solving (or at least lessening) the problems that come with being put on a pedestal.

But once you get an environment that’s got plenty of admirers, it pretty logically starts attracting people who specifically want/need to be admired, hey? And then you get malignant narcissists, each building up their own swarm of supply units/worshippers, envying the others for their successes, and then they start fighting one another, and everyone’s day is kinda ruined and something that people loved turns into something that they’re trying to pitchfork eachother over. I know the kind of infighting you’re talking about - and, yeah, I think it kinda starts with the frequent public handing out of person-centric adoration, no matter how well-intentioned it is on part of the admirers. :-/ Worries me too. Social environments aren’t set in stone. It’s kinda like every good thing starts to break at some point, hey? :-/ And y’can’t even complain about it. I mean, what are you going to do, tell people who’re being nice “Please stop that, I think it might be damaging to the social environment if this type of behaviour becomes too prevalent, because it may start attracting ‘predators’ and possibly also cause resentment between peers over unequal amounts of social recognition being awarded”?

But on the flip side of “It’s always possible for good things to change for the worse”, building things means one can clearly see every day that it’s possible for there to be things that never existed before, though, right? So, it’s also always “It’s possible for shitty things to change for the better”. So maybe there’s some modicum of hope for the future if people at large don’t give up trying to build stuff that works and trying to figure out what the fuck is up with this weird cosmos we’ve got, so we can eventually build something that’d make us wholeheartedly say “Fuck yeah. This is worth living for! Life fucking rocks!”. If nothing else, actions have consequences, hey? So maybe if we push enough buttons and see what happens, something’ll eventually work out well.

Stars, yo. Giant fireballs everywhere. Situation’s crazy. Disregard status symbols, acquire skillz, weave little baskets, stack little baskets up into shape of a tree, giggle a little at how utterly silly that is when there already are actual trees anyway. But reality honestly kinda sucks in a lot of ways and maybe it should be rejected and replaced with something better, even if that’ll probably just be an imitation of something that already exists.

Like some fucking videogames about, I don’t know, detective birds from outer space who get turned into tap-dancing robots who need to perform classical ballet if they want to rescue their accountant gerbil parental figure and solve the mystery of the missing car keys which turns out to have been a cover for a murder in a drug cartel scandal. [mild irony] That’ll meaningfully improve the situation for sure. :+1: [/mild irony]

So… if you’re in a depressive-realism-nihilism-bout these days - have some unsolicited words of affirmation from a stranger on the internet: Golem away unashamed for however fucking long you wanna. Every sane person grows disillusioned at some point. It’s normal, and maybe even better than never realizing that a fucked up situation is fucked up. Human nature is fucking depressing sometimes.

Just don’t forget to do some stuff that makes you feel something every once in a while, while you’re golem-ing. I think the capacity to feel emotions might be able to atrophy in the same way muscles do when unused; there’s been studies suggesting that, for instance, people who vent anger stay angry longer and get angry again more easily, so I think it might be easier to get into emotional states one regularly is in (and maybe, equally, more difficult to get into emotional states the longer one has not been in them). Break it up with little stuff occasionally - something that gives a minor happiness- or appreciation- or satisfaction-feeling, just so the ladder back out of golemdom stays functional for when/if you decide you want it at some point. Eat some ice cream. Poke some squishy glitter-goo. Play with an adorable rodent. Or, y’know, whatever works for you. Shout if you want some fuzzy animal videos, I’ve got some pretty great ones bookmarked.

::srs face:: <3 ::general internet-transmitted sense of nonspecific interpersonal caring::

#17

I’ve noticed NWNEE has DLCs…
Premium modules? Why? Can’t they simply add it to the game itself instead of paying an extra buck?
And what’s even this “Heroes of Neverwinter”? Just a portrait pack? What the fuck, who would pay for that?

@Clangeddin
I am interested in the modding platform and especially the modernization of the engine, but just for all this, it’s still something too steep for 20 euros.

I am more willing to buy NWNEE for 5 euros or less, but it seems that NWNEE never had any deals, ever, that’s sad.

@Charles
I care very little about happiness. Happiness is always just something that happens for a short-term and that’s it. Funnily enough, we humans actually consider depression and suffering long-term, but it’s not, unless you do have a mental disorder that challenges your emotional state.

Besides, people who experience mania, which has one of the symptoms as a weird sense of happiness, don’t like it at all, they really don’t like it.

@TheBarbarian
Reality is unreality. The “lens of depressive realism” are exactly that, they are lens. I only wear them because I enjoy it.
Right now I’m just trying to find something fun. Most people tell me that being married and having a family is fun, but from what I can see, they are parasites sucking.

2 Likes
#18
More online mental health talk, tucked away because technically offtopic and probably not interesting for everyone in the thread.

:frowning:

That’s terrible, both for you and them.

Can I tell you something rather personal here, in a profoundly oversharing way, since we’re talking about depression and hate and shitty family lives, here? My father used to come home from work and shout “FUCK THIS FAMILY” and throw the mail into my mother’s face.

I’m currently having correspondences with one of my elder siblings, who’s been struggling with self-harm and suicidality since we were teenagers, where they are implicitly accusing me of being to blame for their current mental health problems because I “set our father on them” when I was between 2-4 years of age, by lying about having played with their toys and leaving them lying about in the open. Frankly, I’m feeling somewhat threatened by the way this contact reestablishment is going.

Your dissatisfaction with your life, and your disregard for their presence in it, may well rub off on your family, continuing the cycle of hatred and suffering into the next generations. If you’re miserable in your life with your partner and your children, to a point where you can’t see them as anything other than parasites, it’d be much kinder for everyone involved if you tried to make changes for the better, or even separate, rather than attempt to simply cope with living a dysfunctional social dynamic - thereby forcing other people to live in a dysfunctional social dynamic.

Couples- or family therapy is a difficult, lengthy process that requires compromise and effort from all parties, you included, but many of the behaviours that lead to the situations that displease you can be changed, in much the same way as a blank canvas does not need to stay empty.

Please for the love of cake don’t try to DIY that, though. My father’s attempts to change his family life as he saw fit were a disaster. Lasting positive change can only be done from a place of genuine appreciation, as it requires willingness to consider the needs of all involved parties important. If you view someone as being a parasite, you will, inevitably, begin treating them like one.

Consider contacting a therapist. Seriously. You’re clearly exhibiting that you want to talk and to do something about your depression - and stating that you’re looking for things that would make your life fun again even as you deny caring about happiness or being interested in feeling emotions. “Therapy” kinda sounds like pointless mooky brainwashing, but this kind of thing is exactly what therapists are there for. You may need to be patient with them, though, and look around several times until you find one you mesh with well. TBH, I’ve found that especially a lot of child psychiatrists don’t really get it. ::cough::

Ranting to someone at length about it all could even be pretty fun, hey? :slight_smile: Equally satisfying, if not moreso, as telling the lot of us here about it. More private, too, internet being what it is.

Just try to avoid playing “Prove that you’re smart enough to understand me!” with them if you decide to try finding one at some point, even if it’s tempting. They’re not there for that; they’re there to help people figure out how to solve their own problems and build the life they want to live, and they’ve got other stuff to do, too. It’s ironically enough probably more of a trap one sets for oneself than one one sets for the other person; “Ayyy! I’mma make it more difficult for you to help me, and it’s because I’m smarter than you!”. It’s like being “smart” just enables people to be spectacularly stupid in more subtle and insidious self-defeating ways. Fuck, I could rant about that a lot.

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#19

The premium module program was from Bioware/Atari. It’s not some monetization method they just came up with. The “new” one isn’t exactly new so much as “enhanced”, and is honestly more of a delayed justice type of thing than a new release, since it was always meant to be a premium module and was developed as such, but was dumped like the rest when Atari pulled the plug on the program and released in its then-current state on the vault. It’s now fixed up and sitting properly where it was supposed to be. You don’t need to buy it, and the original version is still on the vault, but I’m not the only one that was very glad to see it there where it should have been.

There’s also some of us happy with the potential of the premium module returning, for multiple reasons. They may like high quality adventures and be willing to pay for them, or may just want to support teams doing cool things that allow the rest of us to use stuff they make. It’s also a means for experienced modders to band together and pool quality experience into something that they can sell and get a name for, without $$ drama ever touching the “regular” part of the modding community. (Although back then, some of the arguments were about these teams hoovering up the local talent.)

For those of us that rarely buy them, we’ve still benefited from them, considering we got all the assets added to the core game and in some cases new functionality entirely to prepare for them. Tilesets, placeables, creatures, horse-riding, cloaks, and so on. (And not even counting the vault dumps from projects that were cancelled.) We don’t know for sure if the same pattern will hold – it sounds like they are not sure how to go about the “asset availability” part because of not wanting to bloat up the core game, but also still wanting everyone to be able to use them. We’ll see on that, I guess.

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#20

I think the short-term happiness you’re describing is joy. Happiness is supposedly a long-term joy that is achieved by basically deciding/accepting ones place in the world and assuming it.

All I can say for sure is that lowering my general expectations of the world and those in it (including myself, which is the hardest) made life much better for me, which had the side effect of making me more productive.

And yeah… I can imagine suddenly being overjoyed for no reason (or however mania works) might be unsettling.

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