Just Had The Weirdest NWN2 Toolset Issue (A Solution)

Hi again Lance,

I actually remembered wrong. Or sort of…I have had crashes with areas that I have managed to solve, when the toolset has crashed to desktop. I don’t exactly remember what the problem was then, but I know I managed to solve it and that it was something that was logical.
However, the incident I was thinking of was when I used this prefab: https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/prefab/area/rustic-tavern-and-shrines and the area “temples druid and knight” and I edited the small temple somewhat with placing a few benches there. This didn’t cause a crash with the toolset but when having baked and everything and checked that the surface mesh looked ok, and I put the Set Start Location there, and trying it in game, then NWN2 crashed when trying to load that area.

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I think the large area may be an issue in my case too. Although it’s NOT very resource full at the moment, but it still feels as though the toolset cannot handle the size efficiently

The toolset does appear to have some strange behaviour with some aspects. I may try downloading that area to see if it has anything in common with my own and see how it handles in my computer.

Thanks, Lance.

EDIT: Another thing this “problem” felt like was as if the toolset could not access the resources I was trying to place from the toolset when I clicked on them. It reminded me of trying to access something from a corrupt part of a hard drive. Now, I have also just done a hard drive firmware update for my SSD, so we will see how that goes too.

Hi All,

An update … Now the toolset dropped to desktop after I clicked on a “Flaming Skull” creature to examine it in the toolset … another link to the flame effect! (But only when I had the large area loaded.)

Also noticed that the toolset would crash to desktop trying to load the large area after viewing one of these creatures too. I am beginning to conclude that I will simply have to break the area down into smaller chunks. (I am going to do that to test my theory anyway.)

EDIT: I could not load the area again until AFTER I restarted my computer!
EDIT 2: Now I just had to power down and reboot before the area would load! :astonished:

Can other people try testing their access to “flame” effect related objects, as I a, beginning to think there is a pattern here.

And in case it matters, my graphics cards use NVidia drivers.

Cheers, Lance.

Hi Lance,

I have ran into the issue too on occasion. I generally open a new folder and then export areas/dialogs/ etc individually and then check the toolset each time until I find the file that is causing the issue. I’ve found both 2das and blueprints that can cause this to happen. It’s a slow process but saves a ton of work.

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Hi SD37,

It is a frustrating problem I must admit as it is really interfering with any build time I get. :frowning:

In this case, however, any thing I have tried always appears to relate back to the one single area, as these objects always work OK on other areas, and have even worked with this area “sometimes” … or when they feel like it. :astonished:

The only other common aspect appears to be with the flaming effect, which still works in other places.

I’ll keep investigating while I can.

Cheers, Lance.

According to Windows 10 report, it is always to do with:-

nwn2toolsetrenderer.dll

Lance.

I believe I may well have found the problem …

I believe it to be a Windows 10 memory resource issue due to the fact that larger areas require more memory to work, and as soon as there is a memory overload the toolset crashes …

HOWEVER, the reason I have been experiencing the issue of late is because the Windows realtime virus checker appears to be really memory hungry whenever I try to work on things in the toolset. If I switch the real time checker off, the toolset does NOT crash, even when I introduce flaming creatures in the large area!

Now I don’t really want to have to disable my real time virus checker every time I work on this area, and so is there any way to address this issue without falling back to buying more memory, which I will do if I have to. (Currently using 8GB.)

Also found this may be helpful …

I am also going to try reinstalling my graphic drivers …

Cheers, Lance.

Well, even after two “clean” driver updates (NVidia do two types), neither resolved the issue. Neither did turning off the realtime antivirus after a crash. Therefore, the “damage” has been done by the time it crashes.

Reducing the size of the area may be my only option, as this helps reduce resource usage by the looks of it. I’ll report back if this is more consistent than other previous testings.

EDIT: OK, in all my testing, the only thing that appears to “fix” the issue is to reduce the size of the area, which in turn likely reduces the resources needed, and stops it from crashing when I try to add anything new to the area … especially flame related objects … :anguished:

I may try investing in another 8GB memory just to test the theory. However, if anybody else has any more ideas or suggestions to try, I am listening.

EDIT: I ordered another 8GB memory in the hopes that will help with the issue, as I would prefer to keep to the original map size if I can. If that does not work, then I will just have to reduce the size and make do with a memory update as a consequence. (I may leave any further updates to that area until I have updated my computer in a few days.)

Thanks,

Lance.

To all,

Does anybody have a computer with 16 GB memory (and possibly uses Nvidia graphic card, although not essential I guess), and would be prepared to test load this area for me?

I want to keep it to a minimum distribution as it is a key area for my module two and so I wish discretion when testing for me. However, if you have the hardware, toolset and know how to test an area, I would appreciate the help. It would require the following …

  1. Download the zipped file … I will provide a link in a PM.
  2. Add the five area files (single area) to a temporary module.
  3. Load the area.
  4. Try dragging a flame effect into the area and then delete it a couple of times. (In particular the flaming skull creature.)
  5. Close the area … without toolset crashing here too.

Thanks, Lance.

I have 16 GB but I use a Radeon Card. If you need someone I can give it a twirl.

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Hi Sawdust37,

Thanks, I will ping you a PM with the link …

Lance.

Lance, I have 16GB with a Nvidia GTX 970 if you need another set of eyes on it.

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Hi Travus,

Thanks, I will PM ping you the link.

Lance.

Hi All,

I am just going to disconnect my UPS as well to test the power supply … will be back online shortly.

EDIT: Made no difference - It was a long shot anyway.

Lance.

Hi All,

Thought I had a fix, but it crashed again on further testing.

EDIT: I have also noticed that if I “verify” the area, it reports many objects as having scripts attached when unuseable, even when they do not. So, I am going through one by one changing it to “none” and then also emptying “conversation” when it also thinks one is attached.

Then I will save and test again when the verify comes back “clean”.

Cheers, Lance.

EDIT: Here appears to be another “common” thing I noticed … The area might load after a crash to desktop if you try immediately loading the module and same area again. You may even be able to drag a flaming skull creature into the area ready to place … but if you hit escape to abandon the placement, it will likely crash again. And yet, doing the same test on a smaller cutdown version of the area (say cut the top ten squares off) it has not yet crashed.

It’s also possible to have too many objects in an area. Toolset can’t handle it and poof, It’s out.

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Hi Kamal,

Well, this area (I believe) has less objects than others I have made on a similar scale.

So far, I believe it may be a rogue element/blueprint in my campaign files, but I cannot confirm it as the area can be loaded even if it takes a computer reboot to do so. If I load the area outside of the campaign, then it appears to be relatively stable - and so I may have to break the campaign folder up into sections and try adding back piece by piece until it crashes again. EDIT: But even this area is stable with the current campaign files if I decrease its size!

That may be what Travis is doing too, so he may discover something before me.

I hope to find out the problem soon though as I wasted a lot of time over this. At least I’ll end up with more memory as I will keep the order going - the extra memory hopefully will help anyway.

Cheers, Lance.

I think the toolset is a NWN2 app, so it’s only going to go up to 4 Gb max; more likely 2 Gb. Try running the Windows Task Manager and seeing how much memory the toolset is using with the area loaded. I get over a Gb with just my large 18x17 tile area loaded. Of course, I have a lot of custom content added, so mine’s going to be bloated anyway.

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Hi rjshae,

I tried that and it fluctuates too quickly to notice. By the time the area “loads” when it crashes, the resources drop to zero usage before I notice anything beyond normal.

Cheers, Lance.

The toolset seems to crash once it’s using about 1.8 GB of memory, so I make sure to run memory hogging programs in the background when I try to open large areas. Very counter intuitive, but it works for me.

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