Been using TCC for awhile now and am uncertain on how certain recipes are supposed to be used. For example, “Armor Spell Failure Reduction 5%” is supposed to require a Caster Level of 1, but it requires Ethereal Visage which my wizard does not have access to until he reaches level 11. This would also apply to “Armor Spell Failure Reduction” 10%, 15%, 20%, and 25%.
Then there is the “Magic Pouch” which is supposed to need Caster Level 3. But it requires Planar Binding which again need my Wizard has to be level 11 to learn. Ditto for the Lesser Magic Bag.
Universal Class Limits are supposed to work at Caster Level 6. But Mind Fog does not become available until Level 9.
A melee weapons with Cold Damage +2 is supposed to be craftable a Caster Level 5, but you need level 7 to get Ice Storm.
Now with TCC 2.05, Skills +4 are supposed to be craftable at Caster Level 6, but Legend Lore Is available at Level 11 for a Wizard. I suppose a Bard could do it at Level 7, but Grobnar has few enough feats available to him as is and he does not show up until I am somewhere around Level 9.
I would love to be able to use Skills +4 when my character reaches Level 6, but that does not seem to be an option. By the time I have access to Legend Lore, I am one level up away from Skills +8. So I never actually have a use for Skills +4.
There are a few others:
Universal Resistance +1
Universal Regeneration +1 and +2.
Let’s say I wanted to use a scroll to craft Skills +4. The Legend Lore scroll does not show up until Act 2 that I am aware of. By then I am already at character level 11.
And forgive my ignorance, but I have never actually used a scroll except to sell or memorize. Can a Wizard with a caster level of only 6 use a scroll for a spell that he normally acquires at level 11?
don’t really know. I’m not a big fan of scrolls and haven’t tried crafting with them.
but off the top of my head i’d say there’s a chance of a fizzle, and i believe they cast at casterlevel 10
i wonder if @Vandervecken wants to rethink those recipes …
In PnP D&D they used to be usually at level 12.
It seems a wizard can use scrolls to add to their spellbook.
But a wizard can only use the scrolls that match their level - A Level 5 wizard cannot learn Wail of the banshee from a scroll.
If you remember Amie was able to cast a spell at the fair that was a 2nd level spell while she was still only able to cast 1st level spells. Yes you can cast a spell from a scroll at any level. Although by pnp there is a chance of spell failure. So yes a 6th level character can cast that spell from the scroll, that is for an 11th level caster.
I always waited until I won the Harvest cup and leveled up so I could have Amie memorize the scroll. That is good to know though. I always thought that if I could not memorize it, I could not use it (as a wizard). Thanks for the clarification.
Matching the spell acquisition level and the caster level for the recipe has never been a feature of TCC. From the very beginning (long before I showed up), there was no attempt to match spell level and caster level.
I’m not sure what benefit it would bring either. Since we would just end up changing the caster level to match the spell level. As it is, if you acquire a scroll you can try to cast it if you just have the caster level.
To give an example, Tumble +4 requires Legend Lore. The scroll does not become available until Act 2 when Dayne Lynneth shows up in Blacklake district. By that time my character is level 11. In TCC 2.04, Tumble +4 required a CL of 12. With TCC 2.05, the caster level requirement got lowered to 6. I was excited by the prospect of starting my level 6 characters with 4 points of Tumble and then upgrade them to Tumble +8 at level 12 and so on. Then I realized I would not be able to give them any tumble at all until my characters were at level 12 anyways. Consequently I will always skip Tumble +4 and always go directly to Tumble +8. It makes the Skill +4 entries seem rather pointless. Now if Skills +4 were to use - say - Fox’s Cunning instead, then I could craft Tumble +4 at level 6. Just a thought.
Thinking about this further:
- These recipes do still have a use. It’s not always true that you want to craft the best item you can. It may be true mostly in the OC, but it’s not true if a) you have gemstone/essence limitations, or b) you are crafting items as part of some GM interaction or an ingame economy. One of the benefits of TCC is that it allows you to create detailed and complex magic items (e.g. sets) that you might want to be able to do as a GM. To think about TCC purely from the POV of the original campaign is a bit limited.
- It was never my intention when altering the CLs for item enchantments to significantly change game balance. You are quite correct that this creates a major imbalance in CL vs spell, but my natural inclination is to revert the change and raise the CL, not to lean into the change and reduce the spell required. In particular, I am concerned about the early-game balance effects of enabling users to do things like create +4 crafting skill items earlier, or to craft +4 open-lock or pick-pocket items very early.
- Completely changing the way these recipes work by taking them off Legend Lore is a major code change that I don’t really have the time to do or to test. Not sure it’s a good idea to do a wholesale revamp.
You are so right. I took a look at the files and changing the spell for just a portion of the recipes would be a major rewrite. Fortunately for me I found a fairly simple solution. I exchanged entries for Tumble +4 (1046) and “Ring of Wizardry 1” (479). Now I can use Fox’s Cunning for my Tumble +4 and Legend Lore for the Ring. That leaves four other slots if I want to modify any other skill.
I am a major fan of TCC. Crafting in itself has become an important part of game satisfaction to me. And since I implemented the Difficulty Modifier module I am looking for new ways to survive the heightened threat levels. Right now the game balance is pretty much geared towards my extinction.
Incidentally, I have always played solo against the AI. I have never played an Internet game in my life so that will not be an issue.
Vandervecken - I apologize if I sounded critical. I am very grateful for what you have done with TCC 2.05.
I’m glad TCC is working out for you. I started with TCC in my playthrough a couple of years ago and was so annoyed with all the bugs that I decided to fix them. Then I decided to track down the original authors and get their permission to package their mods, which they gave. It’s the first major mod I’ve ever worked on.
Between @kevL and I, we have found so many bugs and things to fix over the last couple of years. I’m so glad people are actually using the thing.
If you have any issues BTW please do go to the Github and open an issue. I don’t track this forum unless someone calls my attention to a thread.
Just adding my appreciation for this project and your effort. Like Mindrider, I’m a solo player and have learned to use crafting strategically to get by with an a less than optimal character/party. IMO it creates a greater sense of adventure to play a PC that suits your personality than to do a power-build or similar optimized character for each campaign. In this regard, TCC contributes to the ‘magic’ of gaming in the NWN2 universe.
TCC v2.05 released!