NWN2 - Dark Sun (adventure)

I’ve been playing with this for a little while and I liked the results well enough to show them off! Some in-progress Dark Sun areas, potentially the basis of a short module.

The idea would be largely a wilderness adventure, working in some of DS’ resource scarcity (and using kamal’s Creature project to work in some of the stranger beasts where possible):

  • A rest-based, non-interruptive hunger and thirst system (rations and water have weight, and are required to make camp. Fresh rations can be crafted from creatures - or even humanoids for those who don’t mind a shift towards evil alignment. Fresh water can be found in caverns and other places where monsters hole up)
  • Breakable weapons. Maybe? It is part of the setting.

I’ve never been great at the combat side of things, so if I do manage to pull this together, I’d love to partner with someone who actually knows their DnD balance who can make it a genuinely challenging and exciting experience!

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For my memory you’ve captured the graphical tone and aesthetic of the Dark Sun setting quite well. Hope you have time to continue this.

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I do like the setting and I wouldn’t mind helping with the battles. If you are still up for it when the time comes remind me and I’ll do my best to balance this. I could also share the special AI I used in my campaign to have some clever spellcasters.

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Thank you, Andy, that’s really kind! Hope things are going well with your release and you’ve figured out a solution to get Return of the Exile up on the Vault.

Having some fun creating some areas for Tyr’s Caravan Gate and Stadium!

Item breakage is giving me some pause for thought. I’ve tracked down exactly one existing system on the Vault - Rami’s Item Breakage/Damage System for NWN1.

The scripts work just fine in NWN2, but it’s a simple system: essentially, every time the player kills an enemy, their weapons and shields are damaged (via a local int increase), until eventually they’re destroyed.

In other words, players’ items break, but their companions’ weapons don’t.

Is this a workable system for a party-based game like NWN2? Or is that just going to lead to players halting combat once the enemy is down to a few hit points, letting their party members do the fighting to ensure they can keep their weapons pristine?

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This looks really good, Grog! Great work!

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I’d imagine one could adapt it to include NPCs by keeping applying a slightly modified number to the state of NPC weaponry, and ‘breaking’ those too when appropriate. Moreover, it really means players will make sure to always keep a backup weapon handy in case their primary weapon is in danger of breaking. Does the system allow for repairing a weapon before it breaks? In the old MUD is used to play, once it actually broke it was shot, but anytime before that one could take it for repairs, or if skilled, repair it themselves before it broke (resetting the integer to zero).

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not a big fan of item breakage. such mechanics only lead to gaming around the system like you described, or hauling around whole troves of weapons in case something breaks at an inopportune time. additionally you need to update the hud to include the item’s current condition to minimize frustration. it’s also not really fitting for bludgeoning weapons - those are sturdy and seldom break.

a less intrusive system could be the dulling of bladed weapons. after prolonged usage blades could suffer a -2 on the dmg roll. to counter this one has to use a whetstone.

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Moreover, it really means players will make sure to always keep a backup weapon handy in case their primary weapon is in danger of breaking.

Yeah, that’s exactly the idea. I’ve been playing around with upping the weights of all items in the 2da as well, on the principle that players should have to make some genuine choices around carrying 1) that extra treasure from the dungeon, 2) a couple of spare weapons, and 3) enough food and water for everyone. (Although perhaps if they lose their shield, they can craft something from the chitin of that giant insect they just butchered…)

Does the system allow for repairing a weapon before it breaks?

Yup, it’s just a matter of setting the local int back to zero (and Rami handily included a ‘repair all’ script in the package). I’m thinking it might make sense to have that as a merchant option, and then a purchasable ‘repair kit’ that can be used on individual weapons.

not a big fan of item breakage. such mechanics only lead to gaming around the system like you described, or hauling around whole troves of weapons in case something breaks at an inopportune time. additionally you need to update the hud to include the item’s current condition to minimize frustration. it’s also not really fitting for bludgeoning weapons - those are sturdy and seldom break.

Well, it’s an interesting one, right? I imagine item breakage is quite divisive among a lot of people, but it’s such a famous part of the Dark Sun setting, and it brings something to the table for the basic gameplay loop (you’re a desperate scavenger who’s constantly struggling to survive in the wasteland, not a wealthy hero carrying his +1 Longsword around all campaign) and in the world-building (there’s nearly no metal, so the most common weapons are cruddy bone, obsidian or flint - even a bludgeoning bone club can shatter).

I was picturing something along these lines:

  • Weapons are breakable, and have significant weight (so while a player is wise to carry a spare bone spear with them, they’re never going to be tooling up with a dozen different spears)
  • There’s always unobtrusive chat messaging to indicate when a weapon hits certain key milestones of degradation, and the player themselves can check items in their inventory with a special tool (again, this is already in Rami’s system, thankfully!).
  • The vast majority of weapons are common, basic-level bone until very late into the module, when unbreakable, highly precious iron weaponry might start to crop up. (So a player won’t get too mad if their spear shatters - it’s just a spear. They can always grab another one and coat it in deadly venom.)
  • Enemies always drop their own weapons when appropriate (so if a player’s sword breaks during or after a conflict, they have a good chance of being able to find something else to defend themselves with - at least as a short-term replacement).
  • Replacement weapons can also be crafted with a skill roll if the player uses certain animal parts found on their corpses (beast ribcages or insect chitin, say)

To me, that’s actually less intrusive than a dulling system, and fits the setting better; weapons are disposable and commonplace, rather than a permanent commodity that needs its own upkeep management (which is itself frustrating).

The NWN2 version of Baldur’s Gate includes a weapons breakage system but I don’t know if it will meet your needs or not. May have to ask on the Nexus, I don’t know if any of the team for that project are here very often.

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And hopefully (as although said earlier) flint, obsidian etc material as well…?

That’s the general plan! I was thinking of a mix of bone and flint for basic weaponry (based on NWN2 item appearance limitations rather than trying to duplicate everything across two materials) and then maybe just obsidian as rarer keen or bonus slashing damage weapons that can be crafted from certain special encounters - like fighting an obsidian golem.

Is that mix of materials something you’re particularly keen on? As I say, even with haks there are some limitations finding primitive models for the entire NWN2 weapon range, so I’m really still feeling the idea out.

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Also on breakable items:

It’d be pretty easy to offer players cheat item instructions in the readme if some people just don’t want their weapons falling apart?

You could use the item on any weapon and it’d set the local int to ‘invulnerable’ so it no longer degrades.

Might be a good compromise for anyone who finds breakage frustrating - but like I say, I’d be sorry to leave it out entirely.

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Is that mix of materials something you’re particularly keen on?

Yeah, that was the main idea of my post. Based on my knowledge on the DS campaign and images that I’ve got from it, those materials do offer quite an intriguing setting for the PCs to survive in a somewhat challenging desert wilderness world.
But you create the world (forgot its name already) the way you feel like creating it, however you feel comfortable with technical limitations etc. and that’s okay with me.
Generally, I don’t mind the idea of weapons (and keys and lockpicks) breaking if you can scavenge and repair them, with relative ease. I mean, it probably will infuriate me quite a good few times to have my characters weapon breaking to pieces in the middle of heated confrontation, but hey, it is what it is.
Finish the job with punches and kicks then :slight_smile:

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Oh and by the way, is it possible for PCs and NPCs to create clouds when walking in sandy etc terrains? And water splashing and stuff? I kinda miss it, NWN 1 had it and I liked it.

Hmm, I’m not sure about the footprints!

It’d definitely be possible to create a recurring mini-dust/sand VFX around the player’s feet in certain areas, but I imagine you’d have to then put quite a bit of work into syncing up the effect with the player’s actual running speed…it’d also need to be a heartbeat script, so it might end up being something that slows down the module a fair bit without looking fantastic.

Yes it wouldn’t be difficult to create a f/x particle emitter and attach it to both feet. The problem is it would run all the time, rather than when just moving. I suppose the particles could be emitted close to vertical so they only show up while moving. I’m not sure how realistic that would look though. Footprints could be emitted right under the feet so they only show while moving.

I wouldn’t mind having something like that for the dusty dungeons of Undermountain.

Hmm, what about a trail effect, like they use with the glowy eyes but using a different texture?

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I’ve seen the dust effect done in something I’ve played in the past few months but I can’t remember where.

Okay, I’m playing Serene and some of the dungeon floors in the assassins tunnels have a dust effect around the character when it moves.

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Thanks, GC! I’ll check that out.

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