PRC Lite and NWNCX


#61

I had exactly the same issue which is, why at first I didn’t change racial type at all and just set subrace so it appeared you are Outsider/Elemental but you actually weren’t. Then I changed it via nwnx that the racial change functioned for scripts (which was stupid as ranger feats for example still considered you original race).

Anyway, yesterday I found out this issue is caused by the great 1.69 horse scripting. I made a fix for this and it will be added into community patch later. I didn’t expect that any other than my testing module will use x3_mod_def_enter in OnClientEnter. How is possible PGCC has it? It was created pre 1.69 iirc?

confirmed, my new code for elemental savant broke it… this will be simple to fix but we can solve an intersting class feature issue - should archmage be able to overcome the elemental savant elemental change?


#62

The most recent version of PGC3 (the one I added the mod to) was updated for 1.69, there’s even a Purple Dragon Knight build enemy to test against. I think it’s funny that the horse scripts broke it, those seem to be a massive pain to work with for anyone.

With Savant, I’m really not sure. IIRC, only their elemental spells are changed, correct? Which would leave things like Issac’s Missile Storm available to them.

My concern is that Elemental Savant treads a lot of the same ground as Pale Master, in that they both give Critical, Sneak Attack, and I believe even Paralysis immunity, except Savant gives more caster levels than Pale Master.

The balance as it stands is that Pale Master and Elemental Savant is a choice between versatility and raw DC/Caster Level respectively, and while Practiced Spellcaster can help Pale Master, it doesn’t totally negate the loss of Caster Level from dipping 10 levels for the immunity, On the other hand, a Wizard/Elemental Savant/Archmage could still achieve a full 40 Caster Level (unless I missed something?) and Mastery of Elements would remove the one major weakness that Elemental Savant has that Pale Master doesn’t.


#63

Yeah famous horse scripts will even override appearance of polymorphed character in saved game when you re-load it. That one issue I fixed in community patch, but it is doing the same with non-standard appearances (say you join the PGCC with character with Kobold appearance it will be reverted to what is normal for your race) and likewise, if character has custom racial type it will do what you witnessed. As I said, I didn’t expect the horse scripts will plague singleplayer modules, if I knew I would add my fix into prc lite to make sure your character won’t get bugged. So next release.

As for elemental savant, you are correct in all points.


#64

I’ll go in and remove the script at some point, it doesn’t break anything for testing purposes.
I assume the reason for the horse scripts forcing an appearance is because it’s all smoke and mirrors using phenotypes, which would make the game making sure a character’s appearance lines up with what it’s ‘supposed’ to be something to ensure consistency.

Funnily enough, I’ve never actually seen horses get much use despite everyone wanting them back in the day. The scripts cause framerate issues and only paladins can use them in older modules


#65

That appearance change is there because there is issue with skin. Issue I fixed in community patch btw. The issue forces to destroy PC Skin if Enforce Legal Characters in nwnplayer.ini is on (1). IIRC this was happening in singleplayer too and I think ELC is defaultly on even for singleplayer. Another possibility is that a custom script in module will destroy all equipped items including skin. And when you lose the PC Skin then horse scripting is not able to tell you are mounted anymore. So it assumes that when you enter module (or reload game) and your appearance is not matching what is normal for your race that you are mounted and you lost hard data, so it will try to “unmount” you. The latest fix I made will force appearance update only when the appearance is matching mounted appearances and horses (for all cases).

Btw, you should level down to acolyte 9 so PRClite should revert the race to human or what you were, then save and reload to get right appearance. Only after then remove the script. Or remove it and change appearance in character bic file in /localvault manually…


#66

Version 2.0 release

Mastery of elements and the appearance change on loading game should now be fixed.

I also made the project compatible with CEP - all that was needed wass to merge prc_lite.tlk with cep260.tlk as there are no conflicting 2das. So now when installed into mod using CEP2 everything should work fine (previously, you would not see texts of any stuff added by CEP).

In future I would like to add:
Warlock
Loremaster
Hierophant
Frenzied Berserker
maybe Bladesinger but the prestige classes for bards are all weird…

Regarding berserker, there is a question how to implement the Deathless Rage. PRC implemented it correctly per 3.5 PnP but I think it is overpowered as hell. On the paper the Deathless Rage seems useless. What’s the point of be able to continue fight when you die anyway? But players on PW I used to run quickly found it - they started running cleric+berserker party, cleric used invisibilty or greater sanctuary to hide from berserker and monsters, berserk was killing everything and once he died cleric just resurrected him to full hp. This tactic allowed to clear areas with monsters 10+ levels stronger than players. They didn’t need to worry about equipment, all they needed was good weapon, weapon buffs from cleric and some items granting STR. Berserker could go into -1000 hp easily but that didn’t matter, resurrect spell always restored hitpoints to max.
So the second option is NWN2 approach and thats immunity to death effects while in rage. That is much easier to implement and perfectly balanced however, I have this feeling that those who want to play PRC in singleplayer want overpowered stuff :slight_smile:


#67

Warlock seems like a project of its own to me, seeing as how it’s a base class and, baring any recent developments I’m unaware of, it’s impossible to select a custom base class at chargen without an outside tool in the non-EE version of the game. Supposedly, this was changed in the EE, but I don’t have it to test. As well, Warlocks have their own unique system (invocations) that’d take a lot of work to get right.

That was always the point of Frenzied Berserker IMHO, it lets the character punch way above their weight class. I dislike the NWN2 interpretation due to it being underwhelming in comparison, but Deathless Frenzy as it is in PnP (and the old PRC apparently) is totally useless for single player for obvious reasons. The balancing factor of frenzy is more apparent in PnP I think.

Immunity to Death Effects is incredibly useful in a singleplayer or otherwise solo situation, but increasingly less useful in high level multiplayer when there’ll be more Clerics around who can cast Death Ward. In the end, it’s probably more universally useful when combined with Frenzy’s other effects compared the the PnP version where the character just doesn’t die. Having the Strength bonus not count against the magic cap (Similar to how Acolyte of the Skin works) would go a long way in making the class useful at all levels.

I’ll test this version shortly. If all known bugs are fixed, this version should be left online just in case, so that there’s a ‘complete’ version of this iteration with the existing features, as future versions with your planned classes might take a while to work out potential issues with.


#68

You haven’t try PRC with nwncx_patch? It will allow base class in chargen. This is non-issue the feature exists really long.

Im actually almost done with Warlock in my development version. I just need to recode spell or rather invocations scripts, but the class is selectable, invocations are selectable at lvlup like sorcerer does and feats are granted. Text references match, feats provide their benefit and all invocations has unlimited uses per day (* instead of number). The only thing I probably won’t be able to bring is the possibility of exchanging lower invocations for higher. At least not with some ugly conversation workaround which in my opinion isn’t worth it.

Absolutely.


#69

Huh. I wasn’t aware that nwncx_patch did that, but it’s been a very long time since I’ve messed around with the old PRC, or any sort of custom class.

-Mastery of Elements works again.

-A level 10 Acolyte of the Skin no longer turns into a Balor upon loading a save.

I’m trying to test some of the feats as well, and I noticed something.

-Remain Conscious allows the character to act while ‘dead’ as long as they have more than -10 HP, including use class abilities like Divine Might/Shield, however, Barbarian Rage didn’t function during.

-Divine Cleansing and Epic/Divine Protection don’t appear as usable abilities when the feats are taken. Of possible note is that I took Divine Might and Shield prior. EDIT: I just checked, even with a ‘slot’ free on the radial menu, neither appears selectable.

-Not exactly a bug, but the descriptions for Divine Cleansing and Protection should replace ‘mod’ with ‘bonus’, ‘Cha’ in the prerequisite should be ‘Cha+’ and '‘Charisma’ in the specifics, and ‘Fort’ should be ‘Fortitude’, to make the descriptions fall in line with the vanilla feats. In addition, Divine Cleaning should say that it ‘lasts one turn’ instead of ‘last’. The duration doesn’t fit the other Divine abilities, though. Intentional?

-Instantaneous and Extended Rage never became selectable. I’m unsure what the prerequisites are. Looking things up, the PnP versions only require a basic rage ability.


#70

I re-checked PnP manuals, it seems divine resistance should lasts the usual charisma mod rounds so I will rework it. However some divine feats have different durattion and it is intentional.

Hmm, this needs a discussion. The reason why it is not selectable is because the feat is set to be available only to the classes that will have it in class specific 2da. Since I haven’t changed any vanilla class in PRC Lite in any way, therefore no class has these feats listed in their 2da and probably no new prestige class is suitable for these feats as well. (Note this issue also prevents to select most divine feats, there are more than you can see now.)

There are two possibilities I can choose:

  1. make the feat selectable by any class as general feat. That probably makes sense however this setting is a reason why PRC is so bloated. If you run original PRC and try to levelup you will see 200 new feats in menu, feats that are very specifics and mainly feats you know nothing about (so you either ignore them or try learn all the new choices and if they are meaningful for you). Adding 3 new feats that will be shown only when you have barbarian rage feat probably won’t clutter the feat list, but with this ideology it can be a problem in future.
  2. add these feats to the feat selection to specific classes, though that would be probably just barbarian, eye of the gruumsh and maybe dwarven defender…

Btw, vanilla feats like Divine Might are set to be class specific and will only show up when levelling up as cleric, paladin, barbarian and maybe champion of torm.


#71

For now, making them general feats that require class features as prerequisites might be the best choice. A character without Rage isn’t going to want or see them anyway, and while allowing other classes to take them if they got Rage from Barbarian previously doesn’t quite line up with vanilla, it maintains compatibility by not altering the vanilla classes.

If too many new feats are added this could very easily become a problem like you said, but as long as the feats had prerequisites that made them only appear to relevant classes, it might be possible to curtail the issue of 200+ feats showing each time a character levels.

As it stands, the current new feats like Practiced Spellcaster and Oversized Dual-Wielding are game changers that make new builds viable even without the new classes.


#72

new version released 2.0a

  • fixed bug with 0 feat uses for feats with unlimited uses
  • the feat decriptions should be bit more consistent now, however I did not used wording “Charisma bonus” unlike vanilla descriptions for Divine Might/Shield as that is simply incorrect, so “Charisma modifier” it is
  • all new divine/rage feats are now selectable by any class provided character still fulfills prerequisities of the feat
  • rage feats should now work correctly

btw new known issue: remain conscious doesn’t work when loading save game with character with negative hitpoints


#73

I imagine that Remain Conscious has the potential to break a lot of things, since the character is listed as Dead while it’s in effect. A number of modules might require the character to lose a battle.

-All of the Rage feats seem to work as intended.

-Unfortunately, you accidentally turned Intimidating Rage into a general feat, and removed the requirements. I was able to take it as early as level 3.

-Divine Vigor, Epic/Resistance, Cleansing and Vengeance are still unusable as abilities even when selected. To specify, they aren’t added to the radial menu.

-Discipline of the Sun doesn’t seem to do anything, it still expends a single use of Turn Undead.

-Testing the Turning feats in general is difficult. Empowered Turning doesn’t seem to do anything either. Its description also mentions ‘Turning Damage’, but IIRC Turn Undead either inflicts fear or destroys applicable targets, but doesn’t do direct damage.


#74

The feat has no other requirement except Rage ability. I checked 2da and the rage feat as requirement is there. I know it is weird that there are no requirements but it match DnD rules. Though, I was already thinking of adding a intimidate skill ranks as a house rule requirement, but decided not to.

Hmm, I see thats a problem. This is because general feats that requires activation doesn’t appear in class radial menu (and any other menu) automatically. I will have to add these feats into all vanilla classes that are supposed to be able to select them. That imposes a question though, how did you get discipline of the sun appear? I can’t even select it when levelling up (same for expowered turning).

I will recheck all the turning dead specific feats since discipline of the sun is not doing anything, but I believe empowered turning is coded correctly. Yes the turning dead ability does either turn or destroy undeads, but there is a hidden calculation where it checks class levels + 1d20 (and some other bonuses like Sun domain), this number is the turning damage and it is checked against undeads found in AoE, if their hitdice is much lower they are destroyed. So basically, the feat should allow destroy undeads more frequently or turn more of them.


#75

I double checked, and the vanilla feat is Terrifying Rage, which has Greater Rage (4x) as its requirement, the added one is Intimidating Rage. Terrifying has a fear/paralysis effect, while Intimidating is simply a debuff like Curse Song. It also functions correctly, this was simply me misreading the description and misremembering the name. It might be worthwhile to find a different icon for Intimidating Rage to differentiate it from Terrifying, since they look identical at a glance.

As for Discipline of The Sun and Empowered Turning, I am able to select them as early as Level 6, with 5 levels in Paladin. I previously took Power Attack, if that matters any.


#76

I uploaded new version where cleric, paladin and blackguard will see the new divine feats in their class radial menu. Nothing else was changed.


#77

Feats can now be used. Blackguards have to multiclass into Cleric or Paladin to take Extra Turning to qualify for some of them, but they can take those feats and use them properly after.

  • Divine Vengeance applies the 2d6 Positive damage to attacks against all enemies, not just Undead.

  • Discipline of the Sun plays an animation (one of the attack ones, the forward thrust with a single weapon) but causes no actual effect, nor does it expend a use of Turn Undead.

Pandora’s Box has been opened by giving the base classes feats. Now that it’s been done, there’s not much reason to refrain going forward, but I’d like to know what all classes new feats are added to to make it easier to check.


#78

Well, practically that is not what happened though technically I modified vanilla class 2das.

But basically the only change was to make sure that these new feats requiring activation will show up in these classes radial menu. They don’t get this feat automatically on any level and the feats can still be taken as general feat by any class (contrary to vanilla divine might/shield) provided the feat requirements are met.

But now when the pandora box has been opened… maybe I will rework all the new ability-specific general feats to be only selectable by class that has the ability - as it is in vanilla…


#79

That’s what I’m trying to get at. Since the class 2das have already been modified to make those feats work, they’re already overwriting the ones in the override or other changes the module the .hak is added to makes.


#80

Well yes, though having cls_feat_cler.2da in override isn’t very frequent. Neither are class modifications for singleplayer, basically only such projects are HCR and DnD 3.5 rules and both are massive and thus won’t be compatible with PRC lite. Even though some part might, adding any of these 3 projects together will just cause issues.

So practically, it will only interfere with minor player made changes to the classes or class changes distributed by persistent world as override (which is horrible practice anyway…).

Are you worried about compatibility of something specific?