Project FL


#141

(Late reply, because Google/Google Alert doesn’t pick up the new forums here, so I wasn’t alerted despite you dropping the word “xoreos”)

If Xoreos is fine with using that shader for all games, then I’m fine. But if the goal of Xoreos is that each game has a water shader that imitates the original one, then it’s out of my scope.

Yes and no.

First, I do want xoreos to imitate the orginal looks of every game, yes. However, I also want optional improvements, user-configurable.

In either case, nice work! Your renderer does look really spiffy. :slight_smile:

I’d lie if I said I wouldn’t want you working on xoreos instead, though. :stuck_out_tongue:

(EDIT: Ooops, accidentally reversed the meaning of my sentence there.)

But I’m not sure if you’d be happy with xoreos in its current state. We only have a partially implemented, old-style renderer, and the new one is still being implemented. We certainly could use help there, but it would be fiddly work, not excitingly dashing forwards. And yes, compatibility with the other games is very important.

I also could use help in integrating berenm’s Granny works into xoreos. There has been some work done on the xoreos animation system recently, to implementing the bone animations for the two Knights of the Old Republic games, and I believe it would be ready for NWN2 animations as well. We’re only lacking in people-power to do that.


#142

I didn’t think about it. How does it look in NWN:EE? I searched screenshots but I didn’t find one with enough quality to evaluate it. I think it’s useful in behind-the-back camera and cutscenes, but not so much in top-down camera.


#143

Because of the objectives and reasons I explained in previous posts, I’m going to keep working on my project in its current scope. However, I’m interested in the future possibility of reusing non-rendering xoreos subsystems together with my render engine to build an open source NWN2-like game engine.

At least, we can chat now and then to interchange knowledge, if you want.

Do you know my tool that converts MDB/GR2 to GR2 and back? As far as I can tell, I know all that matters about the GR2 format used in NWN2, and now modders have a complete Expotron replacement not tied to an old version of 3ds Max, though I still expect surprises now and then.

I have also worked a little on the spt file format and I’ll probably work on more formats in the future.


#144

Sure. xoreos’ code is free for you to use as you please, under the terms of the GPLv3 (or later). I’d be happy to answer any questions you have about the code.

Pulling out individual subsystems might take a bit of work, though, since it is integrated with all the other stuff. xoreos is, unfortunately, not as modular as I would have wanted it to be.

To be honest, I’d still prefer it if you could somehow, in the future, find a way to integrate your work into xoreos, instead of the other way round. I feel like your project, by only focussing on NWN2, might kind of continue to keep the BioWare modding scenes apart.

If you endulge me in explaining a bit where I’m coming from: a part of my vision with xoreos, is to better integrate the different BioWare moddings scenes. I see the NWN and NWN2 people here, the KotOR/KotOR2 people on Deadly Stream, a few pockets of Dragon Age modders, etc. And I somehow wish to see more crosstalk, more exchanging of ideas. I feel like these different communities, and not just modders, but players too, are part of a family that could collect under one banner. Does that make sense?

(Also, yes, figuring out how the games work internally is also a big drive for me. I like peeking behind the curtains and I like solving puzzles.)

On the other hand, I can’t tell you what to do. And I do want xoreos to be useful. So yeah, you can of course take what you want from the project. Provided you follow the license, because I want others to have the same options, and with any of your improvements on top.

No, I didn’t know your MDB/GR2 tool. Very nice. And probably a very good starting point to use for xoreos. :slight_smile:

I’d be interested in any such tools for any BioWare game format. Also, clean specs, if you have them or could write them.

Me, I can offer the code in the xoreos and xoreos-tools repositories, as well as the few collected specs in the xoreos-docs repository and some light research stuff in our wiki.

And going for the end ad spot, I still need more developers working on xoreos. Ping me :wink:


#145

Unfortunately I have no idea what they’re implementing for NWN – I haven’t been following it very closely.


#146

NWN1 Only supports a chase cam over the back of the shoulder which you can pan around your character and zoom in and out of. It does not have “Strategic View” or the ability to control multiple characters at once.

Most people use that same camera in NWN2 as well… although NWN2’s camera is a bit of blessing and a curse. It can be keybinded more easily to behave itself, but also has issues with Line of Sight at times.

Also your assumption on Depth of View was correct… since you are always looking over the shoulder but swiveling around your character, it treats the center of your camera as the focal point and does a DoV effect on the terrain / objects in the distance… I don’t know if it uses your characters location or the camera’s… I assume the camera. I think it’s just a shader effect.

Aside:
DrMcCoy has been working on Xoreos for as long as I can remember and it is a very cool project - however the scope and reach of that thing is insane. I can’t even see a timeline for it ever being in a playable state… especially with the creep scope of porting to android ect…

Also… as I mentioned to Doctor McCoy before… you are always one cease and desist away from years of work being canned… Which is kind of depressing. :frowning:


#147

I can’t even see a timeline for it ever being in a playable state

Not a timeline per se, but we do have a roadmap for KotOR/KotOR2 now, now that there is someone (seedhartha) actively working on that: https://wiki.xoreos.org/index.php?title=Roadmap#KotOR_.2F_KotOR_2

During the last month, KotOR has made quite some improvements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TQcmo4atic

NWN and NWN2 could go the same, we just need people working on it.

you are always one cease and desist away from years of work being canned

So are ScummVM, ResidualVM, OpenMW, CorsixTH, … xoreos is just one project of many.

And really, anybody is one C&D away from being in the pickle. A C&D is easily sent and the future steps are hard and potentially expensive. xoreos is nothing special in that regard. Every smalltime FLOSS project could receive a C&D tomorrow and be in trouble.

Hell, this site here is one C&D away from having problems.

Worrying about that is futile. It’s like worrying about being hit by a bus. Sure, could happen and I’m going to look both ways before crossing the street, but it won’t stop me from leaving the house.


#148

especially with the creep scope of porting to android ect…

Oh, and that’s not something anybody is actively working on. It’s just something I’d like to keep open for the future.

Considering that Apple is deprecating OpenGL and a likely potential future path for OpenGL on macOS is ANGLE, which is an implementation of OpenGL ES (which is the stripped-down OpenGL supported by mobile phones), it’s not even that far out anymore.

Another future path is Vulkan, which works on macOS due to MoltenVK, a Vulkan to Metal layer. And I admit, now that I have some knowledge about Vulkan, writing a Vulkan renderer for xoreos is kinda itching me.

Nobody, me either, is working on any of that in the moment, but it is something I have thought about, for the future. It’s not something that’s holding xoreos back from reaching playable status.


#149

I’ll not insist on my objectives and reasons. I’ll just say that I respect your vision.

I’ll contact you whenever I have info that could interest you (e.g. file format specs). This recent info about the ASWM packet of TRN/TRX files could interest you: https://nwn.wiki/display/NWN2/ASWM+-+walkmesh+data


#150

Yes, Crom already notified me about that, thanks :slight_smile:


#151

@FreshLook: Do you know if it might also be possible to change out the render engine in the toolset? My sense is that the renderer is why the appearance wizard frequently crashes, for example.


#152

I suppose the toolset could be extended the same way the client and server are extended or maybe in an easier way since the toolset is a .NET app. But an important question is how much difficult it would be. I would have to research it.


#153

The toolset uses the same rendering stack as the game.

For example… if you use a ENB replacer or DX hook… like SweetFX… and modify the games rendering engine… those changes will also impact your toolset.

(I use SweetFX)


#154

Thanks. Do you still experience the crash?


#155

Which Crash? Do you mean the appearance editor? I think that plugin is crashing for a different reason then rendering…


#156

Okay. I wonder then if a custom plug-in could perform the same task?


#157

The Armor Set tab under Properties does a very similar thing. I think the solution to fix that particular issue would be to remove the appearance editor from the right click menu and replace it with the “Edit Armor Set” or whatever it’s called tab.

Did you have crashes or issues with other wizards?


#158

Iirc someone fixed the appearance editor at some point by recompiling something or associating it with a different direct x. Unfortunately lost to time I think.


#159

Interesting… the weird thing is… it sometimes works… and sometimes doesn’t… I’ve just learned to never touch that option and use the Properties > Armorset tab…

but yea… I’m sure you could fix it if that’s all it is…


#160

I find that if you use the Appearance Wizard after opening the toolset, it usually works fairly reliably. But the reliability drops over time, as if there is a memory leak issue. I’ve also had the Properties (Window) cause a crash from time to time, particularly during a window resize.