I think it would be a good idea to iron out bugs nwn 2 has.
What do you think?
I think it would be a good idea to iron out bugs nwn 2 has.
Although it would be nice, its unlikely to ever happen due to various licensing issues as discussed in the past on the Beamdog forums (and here too I think).
the best/only hope is xoreos
if I were 30 yrs younger id be pounding away on it … the most difficult issue when I looked into it is that the codebase is designed to work for multiple games (see link above). This seems to make it far more difficult to work on than if it pushed all efforts toward, say, only NwN2 (my opinion).
here’s a couple screenshots from a past build, loading stock Nwn2 resources →
Personally I’d be tempted to fork out code just for Nwn2 and develop from there …
That xoreos page looks like a really cool project!
An EE is unlikely at this time but an overhaul within the limitations of the current engine could be doable. I am only familiar with the 3d side of things but I have seen the sheer volume of mods that improve systems, add classes, fix bugs etc. A combination of the best of all of these combined with graphical enhancements (new 3d assets) can vastly improve the look and feel of the game.
I would love to see Xoreos evolve and grow but it has been slow going on that front for a while now. I tracked it almost daily when it started out but it went stagnant many times since. It’s no small task and no one is getting paid for it so it’s understandable that it will lay dormant for long periods.
I can understand why would you want EE for NWN2.
But if you are looking for an overhaul, like xoreos, then why not switch to NWN1 then? What is there that NWN1 lacks over NWN2? I never understood that…
NWN1 has the “dance of death” which is better than what NWN2 has to offer. The combat melee animation can be better than in NWN2.
NWN1 is easier to work with. Everything is super easy, super limited, but easy.
NWN1 has Aribeth, it seems that many thinks it’s the woman of their life and using NWN2 would be utter treason to her.
For everything else NWN2 is far far ahead and far better. Why some poeple prefer NWN2 ? Beceause you can do so much more with it than with NWN. It’s simple as that.
Can you be a little more specific of what is everything? With new features in EE I see very little advantage that NWN2 holds over NWN1.
From what I know, the exterior areas are not tileset based, and thus less limited. But it takes much more work to make such area in toolset and it has huge issues in multiplayer when these areas are loading (or rather sending to client) super long. Interior areas share same system as NWN1 - tilesets and because there aren’t many custom of them on vault they are therefore much more limited than NWN1 (and the best custom tilesets are copies from NWN1 hmm).
Everything, the area, the scripting the in game player asset and what you can do with it. The ability to do a real multi character party. Basically every single feature of possible “gameplay” has been pushed ahead in order to bring a lot more possibility.
The drawback, is while it was possible to do stuff with very little knowledge in NWN1, in NWN2 the learning curve can be hard for someone without programming knowledge.
NWN toolset feels likes " toy" next to what is possible with NWN2. But the cost is that working with NWN2 require a lot more knowledge. So in the end both have their place, but when you are able or have the time to acquire the knowledge to work with NWN2 instead of NWN, there is little reasons to continue with NWN.
At the other side of the spectrum, if you want to do something quick that doesn’t require as much knowledge in how things works, NWN is clearly the best option.
NWN2 was built on NWN and “opened” the engine to us so we could put our little paws in it.
Hate to be that guy, but I gotta say that you are Wrong . At least partially. I might go so far as to assert that there is not even a single thing that can be done with NWN2 which cannot be done better with latest NWN:EE. Seriously. I can’t really go over the whole feature list, but feel free to ask about any specific thing. The ones you mentioned in passing are all possible.
The one thing that NWN2 has going for it is that some things are easier. You’re not wrong on the spectrum bit, but NWN:EE sits on both ends of it, and NWN2 is in the middle. Things are easy to do in NWN:EE if you stay within the original confines of the game. If you want something more, you often need to spend a ton of extra effort and knowledge; which for many might as well mean “not possible” but you should be truthful to yourself and others when evaluating it.
My favorite aspect of Nwn2 is tactical combat. I’m not sure if anything like this was developed for Nwn1+ but the ability to fully control Companions (not just Henchmen) gives a squad-based tactical aspect, if player elects to puppet the companions.
The other thing I noticed is that playing Nwn feels like flatland … granted the tilesets that have been developed for Nwn look great* but after romping through a few good looking areas in Nwn2 … there’s no going back …
* i actually like the overall aesthetic of Nwn a lot more than 2
That said, I miss a lot of finessing that Nwn has – everything from audio fades to item management. And i really miss the dance o’ death …
Main point for me is that you can control the whole party as separate PCs. I also prefer how NWN2 looks compared to NWN1, probably because outdoor areas can be made more organically. I am also not a great fan of the radial delivery.
I don’t know much more about the EE version of NWN1, but does it allow the same flexibility to work with new GUIs too? I didn’t think it did, and that is another essential for me. Also, does it also allow for cutscene conversations now? I also value that.
Regarding the main title … I think much of the community work here already makes NWN2 feel EE in a number of ways.
You have to know that everything that is in NWN is also in NWN2, NWN2 was build on NWN, it’s basicaly a port in a more powerfull engine with the additions of new possibility.
… except the ability to swap and recolor model-parts by script … as a trade-off we get special effect files …
Clearing up some confusion here. Again, I’m asserting that things are possible with NWN:EE, not that they were successfully done already.
Main point for me is that you can control the whole party as separate PCs.
This is now possible with EE. By default all you get is some fine grained movement controls, but a module can opt to add a whole lot more. I don’t know of any that do it already, but I do know of some that are in the works.
I also prefer how NWN2 looks compared to NWN1
Again a matter of defaults. Unlike NWN2, in NWN:EE you can make a module using many different art styles. Random example:  
probably because outdoor areas can be made more organically
This is one of those effort spectrum things. In NWN:EE you can super easily make a flat area from a bunch of squares by using one of the standard tilesets (or something based on them). On the far end of the spectrum, you can design the whole area exactly how you want it in Blender and import it as a single group. This gives a lot more control than NWN2, but is a lot more effort too.
but does it allow the same flexibility to work with new GUIs too? I didn’t think it did
Yes, the EE scriptable GUI system is a lot more flexible and capable than NWN2.
You have to know that everything that is in NWN is also in NWN2
This is both slightly incorrect and highly misleading. NWN2 did start off from NWN1, but it was never a strict improvement. A lot of things were ripped out; many replaced with something better, others were not. There are things that NWN1 could do that NWN2 could not.
…and then there is NWN:EE, which came after NWN2 and has been in continuous development for 6 years now. That is more than NWN1->NWN2. And unlike NWN2 where the primary focus was to make something new and shiny that sells well, for the most part the focus of NWN:EE development was to unlock new capabilities for the community.
I feel like a lot of confusion comes because folks who moved from NWN1 to NWN2 haven’t kept up with EE and don’t realize just how far along it’s come in terms of capabilities.
I have just purchased NWN EE and haven’t really looked at it yet (too busy with my NWN2 mods) so I am no authority on NWN or NWN EE. I love both games for the enjoyment they have given me over the years but NWN2 has always been top dog for me.
The key for me is facial animation, cutscene dialogues, non segmented bodies, superior outdoor areas etc.
If these are all possible in NWN EE I will likely jump in there once my NWN2 projects are done and go wild. I love character focused stories vs world/lore/politics/combat driven stories. Anything that can help draw you in to the characters (facial animations, superior models and systems) is going to win for me every time.
I have seen some unsegmented models for NWN EE I think but what about facial animations? Animation is not something I know how to do, at least not to any decent standard so if “it’s possible with more work” that is a deal breaker for me, at least until someone else implements it and I can just use it.
I think that is largely what it comes down to, NWN2 can do things natively that NWN/NWN EE cannot. The skills needed to make EE do these things are not easy to come by. For me, anything model related is fine, I have the skills for that but beyond 3d, I am totally lost.
There is no campaign directory and everything that goes with it in NWN, this is a mega stop on many advanced feature.
As for 3D object made in blender it’s also possible to import them in NWN2. They can be placeable or full walkable object. As for the different art possible in NWN I don’t see the point since they are all subpar to what NWN2 can do.
The toolset that tried to go forward was Dragon Age Origin, but many functions were sacrifed so the game could run on consoles. Dragon Age Origin when it comes to gameplay next to NWN2 was a step forward for combat animation and cutscenes, and one or several steps backward for almost everything else, they cut so many functions and possibility
Also that toolset in area making (graphics) requires 10 time more work for a result not so different.
I was so excited about the DA:O toolset, until I discovered that a lot of what made it great also made what I wanted from it difficult/impractical. That’s why I came back to NWN2.
I agree that when it comes to modding, module development etc, the ideal is to not have to reinvent the wheel. NWN EE may be capable of a lot of things it doesn’t do already but who is going to make it do those things?
The question isn’t whether NWN EE or NWN2 are inherently better, it’s do we need a NWN2 EE (regardless of it being possible or not). I personally would love a NWN2 EE, particularly if it integrates better graphical options, shaders, lighting and shadows. DX11 or 12? That would make my decade.
Hmmm. Now let’s look at it from the perspective of the little guys.
I don’t write code.
I don’t build models.
I’m not an artist by any stretch of the imagination.
I can do everything I want using only the existing NWN2, the toolset, and the free resources provided by the community here on the vault. I’ve modified dozens of community modules to suit my personal tastes or incorporate community improvements.
NWN looked a bit blocky to me even at the time of release. NWN2 is fine, even in HD. If the graphics mattered that much to you, you probably moved on to another game years ago and Steam and GOG have so many titles on sale for $9.99 you’d be a fool not too.
I have not spent a dime on anything related to NWN2 since I got my GOG version. So what is my motivation to spend $79.95 on an EE version?
What you can do as a builder is not the deciding factor for the developers. If enough players are not willing to spend the money for an EE version it’s just not going to happen.
So what is my motivation to spend $79.95 on an EE version?
I picked up NWN EE for $14ish for the deluxe edition a few days ago, it was on sale on GoG. I don’t think the sale is still active but you can get it cheap whenever a sale rolls around. Well worth picking up at that price I think. I lost my old diamond edition disks years ago so it’s nice to have a fresh new copy in my game library
I completely agree with the sentiment about those lacking particular skills.
I can muddle through some basic scripting with lots of referencing tutorials and such but I hate it. I am far more artistically minded and much prefer spending hours and hours tweaking and refining a 3d mesh, something that would cause most programmers I know would lose their minds if forced to do it. People have different talents and skill sets, preferences and passions. Some of us are artists, some storytellers, some programmers and yet others simply want to enjoy the fruits of all.
I know I could probably vastly improve the character models, heads and such in NWN EE, possibly even to the same visual level as my models in NWN2 but why would I do that when the game lacks the animations to fully capitalize on my work? I chose to mod NWN2 because it has facial animations for voiced dialogue. I love voiced dialogues in the games I play and the more the models contribute to that the better. As it is, NWN2’s lip-sync and facial animations are… rudimentary at best, I wouldn’t want to give even that up in a switch to NWN EE. As it is, the total lack of any kind of eyebrow animation annoys the hell out of me, a slight raise of the mid brow to emphasize a word, a raise of left or right brow to express inquiry or suspicion, it all adds to the immersion and enjoyment. I have tried every trick I can think of to make the models I make express better in game. I model in some personality to my NPCs to help sell their characters better, a necessity with such basic facial animation.