What are your favorite/must-have override haks?

I’m curious, how do you usually customize your NWN? What are the must haves in your override folder? Do you use custom GUIs? Custom PC heads? Custom voicesets? Custom music, etc?

I’m looking to broaden my horizon a bit in this regard; so far my own favorites (that I play most single player modules with) are:

Anyway, what about you and your override folder?

PS: I also had the title menu screen replaced with a pic of Aribeth that might have been offered by Ben Harrison, but I can’t find the Vault entry for it (I’m no fan of Aribeth, but I liked that picture). Does anyone recognize it and has a link to the Vault page?
backdrop

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The one override I used from the first day is was available was the one that made the hands have fingers instead of being just a blob. That did a lot to improve my playing experience.

For module building I prefer Project Q.

And the one override I would do a lot for* is one that replaces as many npcs/mobs as possible with the wonderful models from all the Custom Content Challenges.

*once my current project is finished I might actually start to work on that.

I would like that! There is so much stunning custom content and so few opportunities where you actually see it used in-game.

Wherever possible, I don’t use any sort of override but then again when I started using NwN you would see dire warnings against doing so. Having said that you might want to explore using Project Q in a patch hak. From what I’ve read here and elsewhere that is quite popular (and that link that I posted to you in another thread might be useful).

TR

The reason I am aiming for an override on npcs & mobs is that if you build with CEP, Project Q or your personal overall hak collection you always end up having to merge the 2da files of your base hak and any new haks.

As far as i understand, creating an override would work around that and also enable people to have those newer models replace the old puppets in any other module they play.

The problem is that overrides change every module. Fine if you’re doing it for your own amusement as a player (as long as you never complain when you break things).

Absolutely not fine to distribute overrides to other players.That will break other modules, imposing workload on the authors when players complain about the stuff you / they broke.

There are degrees in all things, of course. Overriding artwork might just look odd, overriding walkmesh might or might not break things, overriding scripts & 2da files is high risk.

It is true that other modules’ hak files take priority over override. However, this doesn’t offer much protection, because, to work for sure, modules require the game files that are NOT in haks to be the Bioware versions.

Absolutely not fine to distribute overrides to other players.That will break other modules, imposing workload on the authors when players complain about the stuff you / they broke

What kind of problem do you have?

You sound like there has been a history of modules that have snuck overrides into unsuspecting players NWN directories and breaking their games.

Personally I never seen or heard of this kind of malicious intent or recklesness of module builders on this or the old vault.

You can pack your favorite client-side overrides (usually those safe, graphics-related mods) into a hak and use it through the nwnpatch.ini route. This way your override folder can stay clean for testing other things.

Regarding your main question, I cannot play the game anymore without the Streamlined UI (full disclosure: this is my own work). Its primary purpose is to fix all the pet peeves I had with game’s interface, such as not being able to see anything on the inventory screen (transparency) or being puzzled by badly used vanilla icons. It also adds new effect icons, which is a nice bonus, while staying true with original themes.

You may also try the Inventory Sort mod (again, my work), but as @Proleric said, that’s one of the high-risk things. Its worth though if you don’t like wasting time moving stuff around your inventory.

Shameless self promotion is a long standing tradition on here initiated by @TheAmethystDragon years ago now. It’s fine.

TR

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@TheStoryteller01

It’s an old, old point of contention. Several big debates on this one in the past already.

Summed up, it’s possible for overrides to alter in-module events to a point where players meet gamebreaking bugs that wouldn’t have been present if the player hadn’t had the override installed.

Exposition!

As I understand it, Proleric’s lost lifetime (limited! non-refundable! most precious dang resource we even have!) trying to bughunt in a module to help complaining players, when the bugs simply didn’t exist on his end, since he didn’t have the overrides they did. It’s doubly frustrating because sometimes, you get players who install overrides, and then forget that they installed overrides, and don’t inform the builder of it. Ten hours of fruitless searching later, you find out that you were looking for something that you never could have found. Bitter situation.

Since the chances of convincing all the players to stop installing overrides is pretty much nil, he’s putting out warnings about the dangers of override packs to the creators and distributors instead. In a “law enforcement” sort of way, it’s pretty much a “Let’s prosecute the manufacturers instead of the users”-approach.

Which ticks off the “manufacturers” as well as the “users”, of course. Exaggeratedly (as usual), it’s a case of “Lawfuls” going “Your disorderly conduct is causing trouble for your fellow citizens. Cease and repent, wrongdoer.”, and “Chaotics” responding “OI, I’MMA TURN THE OCEAN INTO A GIANT CAKE WITH WINGS IF I WANNA STOP TRYING TO OPPRESS MY FREEDOM OF ARTISTIC EXPRESSION. WE MUST FIGHT! WE MUST FIGHT THE OPPRESSORS OF FUN!”. Local argument that never got resolved properly, I suppose. :-/

Considering any new addition under a “How will this affect the existing stuff? How will this affect other peoples’ work?”-viewpoint leads all the way up into forming a habit of developing software in a way that does not break backwards compatibility, though. There’s wisdom in considering this stuff. Still, while we could rebuke people for creating or installing override packs, we can’t stop them from doing it, and override packs bring players considerable joy, adding greatly to the game experience and to the wild fun of modding however one pleases; IMO one of the main appeals of the game. The freedom to experiment, to wildly build whatever one likes and just kinda see what happens is a huge part of what art and also game modding are all about. Imposing too much rigid formal structure on that might actually hamper the very things that help an art/modding community flourish.

Once you’re at the point where override pack creators keep “Try not to break compatibility” in mind (preferably in a way that doesn’t leave them feeling oppressed and constricted in their freedom of what they may or may not do with their time and creativity)… it’s probably about the best we’ll be getting on this one. :-/ Technical solutions that make this kind of conflict impossible being implemented so that this kind of time-waste scenario can never happen again would be nice, but realistically, I doubt BD are going to be prioritizing this point. Doesn’t come with much of a likelihood of increasing sales revenue, and they’ve got employees to worry about, who’ve got bills to pay and mouths to feed, and there are still going to be bugs in modules and players who need help with them even so.

Preaching in the style of the the Lawful vs. Chaotic-exaggerample:

@"Chaotics"

The “Lawfuls” aren’t really out to “take away the fun and make everyone as miserable as they are”. They’re stressed out from holding themselves up to pretty damn hard to meet standards all the time, and it can be pretty frustrating to impose rules and limitations on oneself when you see, all around you, people who aren’t doing that, but just go through life willy-nilly doing whatever the heck they want to, with no regard for the consequences their actions have for others.

They want to hear that you(we?) know what you(we?)'re doing, and that you(we?) know that the other people are there too, and that you(we?)'re willing to look out for them and won’t be making anyone else’s life harder on purpose. It’s a little counterintuitive to respond with compassion when offered a rebuke, but that’s what the “Lawfuls” actually need to hear; that they’re not the only adults in the room, that they’re not bearing the burdens of the world alone while surrounded by people who neither notice the impact their actions have on others nor care if that impact is negative.

Show them that they can trust you(us) to be responsible and stable as well, and in time, they may come to trust that they can afford to be more relaxed, too. … and then, you(we)'ll get to see their playful side, and that can be a god-damn beautiful thing to behold. :slight_smile:


@"Lawfuls"

Shake your heads at the irresponsibility and frivolousness of the “Chaotics”… and let them play (or, consider joining in sometimes! They(we) may well love you for it). Maybe one of the biggest and best rewards of “being the grownup” in a room full of playing, thoughtless, careless toddlers, is that… well. Your toddlers are playing. They feel safe. They’re happy. It means that you’ve done a great job. Children grow up over time, learning from the example you set for them event by event, instance by instance, comparing all things they meet later on to the same kind of stability and honor you accustomed them to.

Just make sure that they feel good about complying with the rules, that they get to feel proud of themselves for being as stable as you are. If they see you as an impossible-to-please distant authority figure, whose face they only ever see when it is displeased about something they’ve said or done or are, they’ll come to dread your approach, and run towards the things that bring them joy all the more. Which, yeah, includes grabbing the fingerpaints and drawing all over the walls, and having waterballoon fights in the bathroom, and probably dying the cat pink which really isn’t funny for the cat.

I would, admittedly, not leave the adult equivalent of kids with fingerpaints (or straight-up kids with fingerpaints) unsupervised either, though. :grin: Don’t overdo the optimism, it’ll backfire horribly. Over on the “Rules? What are rules? Are rules edible? Do they have BUTTERFLIES? AND TENTACLES?! HEY LET’S GO BAKE A CAKE IN THE SHAPE OF AN OCTOPUS AND PAINT BUTTERFLY WINGS ALL OVER IT!!”-side, we really do need to be reminded to be responsible sometimes, much as we’d protest that we don’t. #SpeakingAsASelf-Professed"Chaotic" #IDoKnowWhatI’mTalkingAboutOnThisOne


Disclaimer: The above should not be considered applicable real-life advice in all possible scenarios. Please evaluate carefully whether Rampant Idealism™ is applicable in your situation, as unwary application of Rampant Idealism™ can actually make things worse.




Ontopic, I’m very fond of these:

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/neverwinter-nights-facelift-haks
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/model/stonehammers-miscellaneous-medium
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/tileset/nwncq-project

The BD weapon reworks deserve a mention in this thread, too:
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/model/beamdog-enhanced-workshop-items

I like overrides, as builders’ resources as well as to spruce up the game from the player perspective. I tend to switch NWNCQ or Zwerkules’ tileset overrides on or off as patch haks depending on the module I’m playing. I’d love having more creature overrides, too.

::puts up the “Hey, so, has anyone with the source code looked into whether we could record the name of the 2da in addition to the row number, to make the contents of custom 2das accessible cross-module, yet?”-sign::

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+1

Re overrides - the manufacturer v consumer analogy is apt. The onus is on the manufacturer not to make toxic products, and this is enforced by community standards. No civilisation expects consumers to be entirely responsible for their own safety.

There is a win-win here. No one has a big problem with low-risk graphical material in override. It’s not an irreconcilable conflict between module builders and content creators - far from it. All we ask is that high-risk content is delivered safely, rather than as an override.

Breaking modules is not OK. No amount of sophistry can wish that away.

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I still don’t know where you are getting at in THIS thread. OP asks for favorite override haks. Why do you take this as an opportunity for a rant against overrides in general? Is any of the overrides mentioned here gamebreaking?

And where have been the the uploads in the vault that have “delivered high-risk unsafe overrides”?

And WHO said module breaking is ok? Is there a dozen deleted posts from the guild of mischieveous override hak creators I have missed?

Seriously, what problems do you have? Next time someone asks in off-topic about everyones favourite spices and you join the discussion talking about cooks shouldn’t posion their guests.

Personally I use my pet project community patch which suprisingly contains set of overrides that I like (weird coincidence).

Kurairyu’s hands, colored class/skill/spell icons, new immunity icons, new emote icons, icons for metamagic in radial menu/spellbook, better barkskin texture and few creature retextures/remodels (badger, chicken, mephits).

Though this whole work of mine is override, these are the most notable graphical enhancements along with fixes to tilesets.

Besides this I use:

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/other/visual-effect/hyper-gore-re-revised-edition


fast rest 2da (i only use test/character building modules in singleplayer)
and aribeth (good and evil version) override, which I can’t find on vault right now…

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I didn’t get involved in this thread until you wrote:

That appeared to me to be unqualified advocacy for overrides.

Evidently you’re not aware of this, but NWN has a long history of module-breaking overrides. Just to take the most notorious example, Tony K’s AI undermines many modules by moving creatures around at random, unbalancing encounters, breaking plots and rendering them unplayable. There are plenty of others.

More fundamentally - though perhaps harder to understand - since overrides impact other people’s work, but haks don’t, haks are the socially responsible choice. There’s no need to use overrides gratuitously. I don’t park on other people’s front lawns, because I can park on the road.

If you advocate overrides without acknowledging the downside, or clearly distinguishing between personal use and publication, you can expect a reaction, which is very much on-topic.

To give an analogy, if I wrote about copying all my friends’ games, and how cool it was to have them for free, I might reasonably expect to be locked or banned for advocating piracy. It would be kinda disingenuous to ask “who said that theft was OK?”.

All the same, you could resolve this - maybe you’re only talking about personal use, in which case say so, or else acknowledge the issue and move on.

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Sounds like you simply saw an opportunity to seek quarrel with someone and throw in some hidden insults about how few everyone except yourself knows about the way NWN works.

Go ahead if it makes you feel better.

Na na na na internet arguments.

@Proleric

'course breaking modules is not OK. It’s just literally impossible for us to prevent for real, Proleric, and the cure may well be worse than the disease. :-/ Viewing game modding as a subset of software development - take graphics drivers and operating systems for an example. They have to get updated all the time for a reason, and it’s not because it’s realistically feasible to write all code ever written in such a way that it remains compatible with every product ever produced. I’ve lost about twelve hours of drawing work yesterday because GIMP saved a corrupted file, which googling the issue suggests had something to do with an ongoing bug with out-of-date operating systems. The resulting “NOOOOOOO” was loud, but the thing to do about this wasn’t for me to try to make the GIMP developers be held responsible for never producing bugs, or to attempt to have their development shut down, or stick to optimizing their program for my operating system specifically. It was for me to file a bug report so that they can use the information to fix the bug going forward - for which I need them to keep doing what they’re doing. If they put their shit down, throw their hands up, and give up in a huff, y’know what we get? Unsupported overrides, which people are probably still gonna install, but for which we won’t have anyone to hand the bugs over to.

Avoiding override-pack-induced module-breakage hereabouts, or reducing the chances of it happening, rests on individual compliance on part of the creators - for which attempts to enforce compliance via social pressure might even be contraproductive, as there’s considerable evidence that punitive environments are stifling for creativity (having a negative impact on the community as a whole socially, as a “fun and games”-place (We are not a company; we are not getting paid. Rather, people here are doing this stuff for fun, in their free time, playing with a game they paid for), as well as on the “tangible value” it produces in favor of the commercial venture it at least indirectly supports) and “Screw you, you snobby tyrants! Now I’m gonna do it on purpose JUST TO PISS YOU OFF!”-pushback from the targets may well result in spawning skilled hostile actors who deliberately sabotage us. What would you have us do to the people who disobey any such rule if we instate it?

::sigh::

the details text-reduction thing is awesome

I don’t know what went on with you and Shadooow back then, or prior to it between you and those players, Proleric. But I’m going to need to hear something different than “(X) is morally wrong” to justify a course of action, especially when the course of action is punitive in nature; I need the “(X) isn’t working out well because (reasons A, B, C). To improve (X), I propose better solutions (Y) and (Z), which are supported by (reasons D, E, F) and come with pitfalls (G) and (H), for which further suggestions are requested”-variant, or I won’t be able to follow the reasoning that led to the conclusion, much less start to try to assess it’s impact or evaluate possible alternatives, which is something I need to do to form an opinion on whether to take a supportive stance on it or not. We can call what I do verbal trickery and manipulation if you like, but I make my thought processes, my arguments, and my biases, clear enough that they can be addressed and refuted (or improved) in detail, and it is up to each individual person who reads them to decide whether they agree or disagree with what I’m saying - or whether they will give a damn what I think at all. My grandiose self-importance is not necessarily a reflection of what anybody else thinks about my thoughts.

As is, whenever we’re talking about the moral aspect of tolerating the negative impact script or game mechanic overrides can have on modulebuilders, I’ve got a nebulous picture of the lot of us taking up a habit of treating people poorly if they mod the game in any way we don’t Officially Sanction™, and I’m super uncomfortable with that thought. I’d consider the negative impact of that change much, much worse than the fact that modulebuilders need to ask players who submit bug-reports which overrides they have installed and default to telling them “Turn off your mods, and then try it again, I only support the unmodded version of my module” if they want to be sure that they will not be hunting any invisible bugs. This will still be the case even if we take all override packs off the Vault right now (they’re still available elsewhere on the internet!) and shun all (potentially game-breaking) override pack creators we have. The overrides are already out there, and they have been out there for years. At this point, we can’t pull them back. We can discourage creation of new override packs, but we just plain can’t take the risk of players installing game-breaking overrides on top of actively-maintained modules away again. It’s there, and it’s there to stay.

Also, what our game mechanics modders do is fascinating work which not many people hereabouts have the skills to do in the first place. Shutting down development in game mechanics overrides would mean cutting off an unpaid “research branch” in a field in which we have relatively few “researchers”, and it comes at the definite cost of everything that it could produce down the road. Doing this because it comes with a risk of inconvenience that cannot ever be taken away completely even then, and which can be massively mitigated via application of common sense on part of all actors (which is something they stand to greatly benefit from cultivating if they do not already possess it as it will aid them in all aspects of their lives going forward) does not strike me as a good tradeoff.

But, I just don’t speak for any override creator other than myself, Proleric. :-/ There’s no point in negotiating this one out with me on a “Community Values / Things Everybody Should Do” kind of level. If you want people not to produce content in form of override packs without arguing them into a corner where they throw their stuff away and leave altogether, you’ll need to to convince them one at a time. Skillpoints in Persuade can help with that, sometimes.

Or you can take it to the moderator/admin team, and talk it over whether you want to switch to a more authoritarian model and enforce compliance via punitive measures, including but not limited to kicking people out if they produce script overrides or whatnot. :-/ Those are pretty much the two options if you’ve got your heart set on the “Shut down the override production” thing. Carrots, or sticks. Or both.

But if the original problem is “Modulebuilders are losing lifetime to bugfixing because override packs can create game-breaking bugs at the player end”, then prosecuting override packs and override pack creators isn’t actually the only solution. Another way to do something about this problem could be rerouting the module bug reports and help requests into the forums here, for instance, where the community at large can help answer them, taking a good lot of the customer support workload off the module authors’ backs. This would actually create the opportunity for us to teach the players how to fix their own override- and module-related problems, and possibly get them interested in modding themselves, integrating some new people with newly-acquired bugfixing knowhow into the infinite pits in which we languish. Also a win-win, perhaps doubly so because it promotes skill and knowledge gain for everyone as well as the kind of freely cooperative behaviour this place thrives on, without threat of social ostracization for nonconformity hanging over anyone’s head.

Amusingly, especially the people who have experience with how overrides work are the people most qualified to bugfix this stuff, so we’d actually want to encourage people to tinker with this stuff, in this scenario. I like this concept. :grin: It’s … can I say… sophisticated. Ha! Subverted!

… yes. It’s true. I admit it. I feel like I’m very witty, much of the time.




@TheStoryteller01

Fair’s fair - if we don’t alert one another to dangers we perceive, we won’t be warned. “Some spices can have negative effects when consumed, be mindful what you put in other peoples’ food!!is relevant side information in a discussion about spice preferences. … also, you never know who’s allergic to what. :thinking: It’s very possible to accidentally poison people. Definitely something any hobbyist cook should know about.

::sigh:: ::foreheadrub::

OK, prepare thyself, because now I’m going to preach at you, too. :expressionless: I’ve gotta. I preach at Proleric to be nicer to people all the time, I can’t let you go un-preached-at here.

One of the bitterest things about having expectations for peoples’ conduct is that we only get to choose our own actions and our own words. Even if we personally highly value politeness, for example, another person may not. They’ve probably made negative experiences with it that they want to distance themselves from. Duplicity is pretty widespread.

When we scorn someone for not acting in accordance with our standards and expectations, when we ridicule and reject them, we do not live our own values (unless our values are that scorning and ridiculing people is great, I guess, in which case ::confused headscratch:: uh. Maybe I didn’t think this argumentation through as much as I should’ve). In every instant we spend acting in a way that is not in adherence with our standards and our expectations, what we put out into the world is not what we value, but ridicule and derision. In one of the most real ways we can, in that way, we democratically vote that there should be more scorn in the world.

People get their ideas about what the rules of social conduct are from being raised into them, generally by making experimental attempts that are positively or negatively reaffirmed, and by observing and then mimicking the behaviour of others. Don’t reject people for not automatically meeting your expectations for their conduct; in much the same way, you’re probably not meeting theirs, and they get to make their own decision on what and who to be; it’s their vote, to do with what they will. You get to decide who you are, not who they are.

Visual: Two building blocks with very little overlap.

|--------|
       |--------|

If you push them together like this, they’d teeter, and break apart. It’s just not stable. There’s not enough common ground. Generally, they tend to get into an argument over who should shift into whose direction, too, and both of them grump about it because oi! Why should I change if you won’t?! and Who the heck even are you to me that I should alter myself for your sake?!.

But go about it like this

|--------|---|
   |---|--------|

… and maybe both of them can be left with more than they had before. :slight_smile:

I can vouch for that being around logickers has been helping me calm down a lot over the years, becoming more stable in turn. It’s worth giving people a second or third look, after the first “whut! CULTURE CLASH!”-double takes. It’s probably especially the people with the most differences to us that we stand to learn from most.

If someone has a different perspective than we do, they can see angles that we can’t. The thing to aim for isn’t to make people identical, to form a homogeneous group, amass the like-minded and reject everyone who thinks differently, but to pull vastly different people together into a cohesive whole that can work together for mutual benefit. Fighting like this does not help with that. It does not exemplify the conduct you expect from others, and it does not make the other person a whit more likely to consider your arguments valid, nor offer them much of anything other than the information that they should feel bad about being who they are. Who wants that?


:thinking: … but, mind you, I expressly mean this in a “social conduct on the internet or in nonthreatening circumstances” sort of way. If someone’s coming at you going “YO, I’M HUNGRY AND YOU’RE MADE OF MEAT”, then HOLY SNAP, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SHOW GRACIOUSNESS AND UNDERSTANDING FOR THEIR PERSPECTIVE. Gotta keep one’s priorities in order.

:grin:



@TheBarbarian

What the fuck, TB. Just… what the fuck. You should knock it off too, you jerk. You’re probably escalating this stuff, making it bigger by funneling more attention into it. You’re not good enough at Social Conduct™ to be qualified to offer this kind of advice, or you’d know better.



::foreheadrub::

@Olivier_Leroux

I would like to formally apologize for my part in derailing your thread in this way. :frowning: We’re probably not making a very good impression, here. FWIW, it’s… it’s just a pretty long-standing, unrelated argument.






On a serious sidenote, given the most recent few messages… do you two think you can take this to a positive or at least neutral conclusion of some sort, make some gestures of concession and respect (if not for one another, then for Olivier_Leroux’ thread, please), or is this gonna hit a point where it needs to be flagged for misconduct? Remember, we’ve got a code of conduct section about respectful treatment of one another, too. As well as one about not expecting one another to be perfect, or all-knowing. I like those sections.

fuck, I’m tired. Short messages are unfair. Y’know I spend hours writing this shit, and then nobody reads it because it’s too long and reading the short gripe-messages and then immediately griping back in an escalating gripe-spiral is way faster and way easier. That’s frustrating.

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in Soviet Russia . … . … the override rides you

/jk

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Faster Rest doesn’t seem to have found it’s way on to the vault. It’s on nwn nexus:- https://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter/mods/825

While I’m here I’ll give a shout out to Darkvision Changes. Makes darkvision and absence of darkvision work properly:-
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/original-hakpak/human-and-dark-vision-changes

And the Speed component of this mod. Makes all running movement slightly faster. It’s for nwn2 but works the same on nwn1:-
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/nwn2-creature-distance-tweaks

@TheBarbarian as so often you are the voice of reason and you are absolutely right

My first post was by all means exactly what the OP was asking for and I still cannot see any reason for anyone to become agitated by it. Announcing to maybe do something that one will not only keep to himself but upload for the community to use does not deserve an attack.

But what came afterwards was respectless to the OP and for my part I apologize to you @Olivier_Leroux and will leave this thread be.

1 Like